The Sinking of the RMS Titanic and other ships.

[jason_c]

Hi louisa,

Yes, I too have been watching this whole sorry episode unfold, live on TV. RIP to those who are lost and my sincere condolences to their loved ones. Here is the best translation I have found, as yet, of the conversation between Capt. Schettino of the Costa Concordia and Capt. Gregorio De Falco of the Italian Coast Guard in Livorno.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX_08zcCmx8

Best Wishes,
Zodiac.

Im intrigued by the way this information is being released so soon. The Captain looks to have screwed up big time. However, his employer and Italian authorities seem to be hanging him out to dry very publicly, very quickly. There's no waiting on months of legal procedure to obtain justice in this case. Its a rather one sided media war.

[Adam Went]

Very sad story and a reminder that technology in 2012 - as it was believed in 1912 - is still not infallible and can still come back to bite you.

However, I have to say on that note that i'm tired of hearing the comparisons to the Titanic, especially from those who were on board. There's not even the most remote likeness to the Titanic sinking with the Costa Concordia, apart from the fact that they were both ships. Some people said it was just like being on the Titanic, how can they possibly know what it was like to be on board the Titanic?

Anyway, I digress....will be interesting to see how the salvage operation progresses.

Cheers,
Adam.

[Graham]

I just read Frances Wilson's excellent book "The Sinking Of J Bruce Ismay", very much worth a read to anyone interested in The Titanic and all who sailed in her.

According to Wilson, Lightoller wasn't seen as much of a hero after the inquiries, more as a toady to Ismay and the White Star Line.

As something of a precursor to the Costa Concordia, Ismay at one point claimed that someone actually pushed him into the lifeboat....course they did!

The Titanic seems to me to have been a tubful of avoidable accidents just waiting to happen - which they did.

Graham

[louisa]

Graham - I am also in the process of reading The Sinking of J Bruce Ismay. If the reader is to be believed then yes, it does sound as if Lightoller was 'brown-nosing' Ismay.

After reading the first chapter, something occurred to me. After the Titanic sank, I wonder just how many of us would have consented to our lifeboat being turned around to go back for survivors?

It's a difficult one isn't it?

[Bridewell]

Accident Prone

I don't know if anyone has been keeping abreast with the developments of the stricken (and capsized) Italian passenger liner the Costa Concordia?

It ran aground and overturned, killing many people. The captain has been criticized for leaving the ship before the passengers and now he reckons he tripped and fell into a lifeboat. Yeah right.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...s-captain.html

He's accident-prone in the extreme. Instead of making it back to the ship to continue his heroic rescue he fell into a taxi as well.

[Adam Went]

Ultimately the Captain is the one in charge of the ship so if he survives, regardless of whether or not the accident is entirely his fault, and regardless of whether or not the claims being made against him are accurate, he's at the helm so he has to share his part of the responsibility.

Reminds me of William Turner, who survived the Lusitania sinking, or Pierro Calamai, captain of the Andrea Doria, which is a bit closer to home in regards to this latest tragedy......neither of them ever lived it down even though neither of those sinkings can be blamed squarely on the Captains.

As for Lightoller, he seems only to have been made a bit of a hero in later years, what with his efforts at Dunkirk in 1940 and then his portrayal in films like A Night To Remember, by Kenneth More.

Cheers,
Adam.

[louisa]

I suppose we can't blame Liightoller for sucking up to the boss (if indeed he did). People used to get the sack for the smallest reason back then and there was a lot of unemployment.

All the modern sinkings don't come close to the events surrounding the Titanic. It was a one-off (fortunately) in so many respects.

[jason_c]

Ultimately the Captain is the one in charge of the ship so if he survives, regardless of whether or not the accident is entirely his fault, and regardless of whether or not the claims being made against him are accurate, he's at the helm so he has to share his part of the responsibility.

Reminds me of William Turner, who survived the Lusitania sinking, or Pierro Calamai, captain of the Andrea Doria, which is a bit closer to home in regards to this latest tragedy......neither of them ever lived it down even though neither of those sinkings can be blamed squarely on the Captains.

As for Lightoller, he seems only to have been made a bit of a hero in later years, what with his efforts at Dunkirk in 1940 and then his portrayal in films like A Night To Remember, by Kenneth More.

Cheers,
Adam.

I believe it was Lightloller's side of the ship that left with many half empty life boats. Murdoch's side left with the boats far fuller.

[louisa]

That's because people just didn't want to get into the lifeboats. The ship seemed so much safer. They had no idea of what was going to happen. I don't think the ship was even listing at that time (I could be wrong).

If you stand on the roof of a building 7 floors high and looked down, that would give an idea of what people saw from the deck of the Titanic.

[Adam Went]

Wasn't it Murdoch who was sticking steadfastly to the women and children first command, whereas Lightoller was more willing to allow men in the boats when nobody else would come forward? Or the other way around?

IIRC, the first lifeboat to be lowered had a capacity of 65 and left with 28, and that trend went on until people realised the ship was in serious trouble and then tried to overflow the few remaining lifeboats.

Lightoller also gains precedence simply for being the most senior officer of the Titanic to survive the sinking.

Cheers,
Adam.

[Semper_Eadem]

Wasn't it Murdoch who was sticking steadfastly to the women and children first command, whereas Lightoller was more willing to allow men in the boats when nobody else would come forward? Or the other way around?

IIRC, the first lifeboat to be lowered had a capacity of 65 and left with 28, and that trend went on until people realised the ship was in serious trouble and then tried to overflow the few remaining lifeboats.

Lightoller also gains precedence simply for being the most senior officer of the Titanic to survive the sinking.

Cheers,
Adam.

Hey Adam,

No, it was Murdoch on Starboard who let couples go through to the Lifeboats and men to fill the boats when no women were to be found.

Lightoller was strictly Woman and Children, in fact Rhoda Abbott went up with her two boys Sidney 13 and Rossmore 16, who were both turned away by Lightoller, so Mother Abbott stayed on the ship and was one of the only women to survive the sinking of the Titanic, supposedly her and her boys jumped off the sinking ship and made their way to collapsible A, Eugene and Rossmore didn't make it though, Rossmore was lost swimming to A and Eugene died on a piece of wreckage according to what Rhoda later told her friend Amy Stanley, who was also on board the Titanic. Rhoda made it though even though her ribs were broken from getting kicked by other swimmers in the water, still she managed to get to collapsible A and survive until they were rescued by 5th Officer Harold Godfrey Lowe. So when Lightoller meant Children he meant Children only. I don't think Rhoda ever knew that on the Starboard side they were letting some men on or she would of taken her boys over there and all would of been saved.

[Cogidubnus]

Good thread...I guess the world's potentially greatest maritime disaster is the one that's been a ticking time bomb since 1944 ... ask folk around the Thames Estuary how they feel about the SS Richard Montgomery and half won't know...the other half look at you as if to say "I wish you hadn't reminded me.

There's an oil refinery just down the way, and Sheerness and Southend bask oblivious a short way away (well Southend's about 5 miles I think)...

Makes you think...watch out for those things that go BLAM! in the night...

Dave

[Archaic]

Radio Show: "Saving the Titanic"

Here's a 1-hour radio program called "Saving the Titanic". The guests are 2 authors, a maritime heritage specialist, and the descendant of a Titanic survivor.

You can stream or download the show. (I'm not sure how long they keep shows in their stream-able archive, so if you're not going to listen relatively soon, I suggest downloading and saving it.)

http://onpoint.wbur.org/2012/04/10/surviving-the-titanic

Cheers,
Archaic

[louisa]

Here's something interesting....a virtual tour of the Titanic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEpQmpg5-Iw

[Suzi]

Heritage!!

My grandfather sailed with the White Star line for years on the Mauretania and the Olympic as a First class steward. When he told my grandma (born in 188!) that he was to be on the Titanic she was sooooo impressed- Now- following a 'night' in Liverpool he missed the boat train and hence the 'boat' she was a very angry woman...8 days later she was a very happy woman when he came back alive to Southampton...unlike 500 others!!! Later he had a similar experience in Manchester- and missed the Lusitania!!! Charmed me!!
Suz xx