The GSG - Did Jack write it? POLL

[Sam Flynn]

there was no mention of any other graffiti in the immediate area

There's a fair chance that there was, though. Why should the police, or the press, have recorded the presence of other graffiti if it could not be connected, however tenuously, to the apron?

Speaking of aprons, don't forget that coincidental juxtapositions had occurred in previous murders, most obviously the presence of the leather apron in the close vicinity of Annie Chapman's body. If it hadn't been recorded that the apron was found to belong to the Richardsons, we'd probably still be arguing its significance to this very day, with some diehards still insisting that John Pizer was really the Ripper, and that his alleged "alibi" must have been faked.

[Abby Normal]

There's a fair chance that there was, though. Why should the police, or the press, have recorded the presence of other graffiti if it could not be connected, however tenuously, to the apron?

Speaking of aprons, don't forget that coincidental juxtapositions had occurred in previous murders, most obviously the presence of the leather apron in the close vicinity of Annie Chapman's body. If it hadn't been recorded that the apron was found to belong to the Richardsons, we'd probably still be arguing its significance to this very day, with some diehards still insisting that John Pizer was really the Ripper, and that his alleged "alibi" must have been faked.

Hi Sam

Why should the police, or the press, have recorded the presence of other graffiti if it could not be connected, however tenuously, to the apron?

Because they would trying to do the same thing were doing here-trying to see how much of a coincidence it was and how likely it was written by the killer.

and we haven't even mentioned why they had it rubbed out so the police obviously thought there was a connection.

Speaking of aprons, don't forget that coincidental juxtapositions had occurred in previous murders, most obviously the presence of the leather apron in the close vicinity of Annie Chapman's body. If it hadn't been recorded that the apron was found to belong to the Richardsons, we'd probably still be arguing its significance to this very day, with some diehards still insisting that John Pizer was really the Ripper, and that his alleged "alibi" must have been faked

that's a good point, but one could argue that lack of proved innocent explanation for the GSG leads to it being authentic also.

[Sam Flynn]

Why should the police, or the press, have recorded the presence of other graffiti if it could not be connected, however tenuously, to the apron?

Because they would trying to do the same thing were doing here-trying to see how much of a coincidence it was and how likely it was written by the killer.

But what if the other graffiti said things like "Esther ♥ Shmuel Forever", "God Save the Queen" or "Dave Was Here"?

[Sam Flynn]

but one could argue that lack of proved innocent explanation for the GSG leads to it being authentic also.

Perhaps, but who in their right mind is going to own up to writing a graffito that had already been linked to the notorious Whitechapel Murderer?

[Michael W Richards]

There's a fair chance that there was, though. Why should the police, or the press, have recorded the presence of other graffiti if it could not be connected, however tenuously, to the apron?

Speaking of aprons, don't forget that coincidental juxtapositions had occurred in previous murders, most obviously the presence of the leather apron in the close vicinity of Annie Chapman's body. If it hadn't been recorded that the apron was found to belong to the Richardsons, we'd probably still be arguing its significance to this very day, with some diehards still insisting that John Pizer was really the Ripper, and that his alleged "alibi" must have been faked.

The leather apron was found in a yard where a tenant used leather aprons in his work. The grafitto was found in a passageway that led to Model Homes almost exclusively populated by "Juewes". Hence the apron referenced a tenant...so why dosent the GSG reference the Jews living in the Model Homes? And the "tenuous connection" is only for those that imagine a night where a woman who is simply murdered on Jewish property run by what Police believed to be Anarchists could not possibly be referenced by the Killer in Mitre Square, in graffiti....just above an artifact from that same Mitre Square murder.

[Sam Flynn]

The leather apron was found in a yard where a tenant used leather aprons in his work.

Yes, but we only know that because someone bothered to report it in the papers. Like I said, if this hadn't been recorded for posterity, we'd still be arguing the significance of the leather apron, and perhaps "Leather Apron" himself, to this day.

so why dosent the GSG reference the Jews living in the Model Homes?

It might well have done, either specifically or, most likely, in the generalised way in which most run-of-the-mill racist graffiti tends to work.

[Abby Normal]

But what if the other graffiti said things like "Esther ♥ Shmuel Forever", "God Save the Queen" or "Dave Was Here"?

I would still think it might be connected but not as strongly.

given all the other circs surrounding the murders that night, especially being disturbed by Jews, one so much that he yelled a jewish insult at a witness that looked jewish and I am very confident it was written by the killer.

it all ties together.

of all the possible writings from the killer I give it 90%.

[Abby Normal]

Perhaps, but who in their right mind is going to own up to writing a graffito that had already been linked to the notorious Whitechapel Murderer?

ahh so you admit-it was linked!

[Sam Flynn]

ahh so you admit-it was linked!

Linked by the police and/or press, Abby. Didn't say they were correct to link them.

Nice try!

[Abby Normal]

Linked by the police and/or press, Abby. Didn't say they were correct to link them.

Nice try!

LOL! worth a shot.

[Sam Flynn]

of all the possible writings from the killer I give it 90%.

I couldn't rule it out, of course. However, in a Jewish neighbourhood, with plenty of anti-semites mixed in, the balance of probabilities would have to be in favour of there already being anti-Jewish graffiti on the walls.

[c.d.]

I really wish people would stop saying the message was anti-semitic.That has never been proven. Only the author knows what was intended. Everything else is speculation. Much better to change it to "what appears to be an anti-semitic message."

As for the killer being disturbed by Jews, was their being Jewish somehow the cause of and the reason for the disturbance? I mean if Schwartz and Lawende had been clearly homosexuals or wearing shirts promoting vegetarianism would that somehow be reflected in the GSG? It seems to me that people are trying reverse engineering with the GSG. They are focusing on the the word Juwes and trying to relate it to events of that evening. There simply might not be a connection.

c.d.

[c.d.]

I couldn't rule it out, of course. However, in a Jewish neighbourhood, with plenty of anti-semites mixed in, the balance of probabilities would have to be in favour of there already being anti-Jewish graffiti on the walls.

Hello Sam,

Exactly. But with human behavior being what it is if there was a great deal of anti-Jewish graffiti in the neighborhood I doubt that Jews would simply accept it and not want to fire back. Hence, the message could be pro-Jewish.

c.d.

[Trevor Marriott]

I really wish people would stop saying the message was anti-semitic.That has never been proven. Only the author knows what was intended. Everything else is speculation. Much better to change it to "what appears to be an anti-semitic message."

As for the killer being disturbed by Jews, was their being Jewish somehow the cause of and the reason for the disturbance? I mean if Schwartz and Lawende had been clearly homosexuals or wearing shirts promoting vegetarianism would that somehow be reflected in the GSG? It seems to me that people are trying reverse engineering with the GSG. They are focusing on the the word Juwes and trying to relate it to events of that evening. There simply might not be a connection.

c.d.

You are 100% correct !

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[John G]

Neil Bell, in a very persuasive article on this site, argues that the GSG couldn't have been written by Eddowes' killer, because it was written leigibly, in a "good schoolboy hand", which wouldn't have been possible given the location of the graffiti: no light shone on the wall therefore, at that time of night, it would be cloaked in darkness.