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  #51  
Old 07-14-2017, 04:15 PM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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Quote:
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Hi David,

So why take Edward Plant along for the ride?
I've already explained this in my Reconstructing Jack article Simon:

"Plant's presence was required because he was the only person who could identify Barton for the purposes of satisfying a court of law in America that the correct man had been arrested."


That, of course, was in respect of ensuring a successful extradition back to the UK.
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  #52  
Old 07-14-2017, 04:25 PM
Simon Wood Simon Wood is offline
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Hi David,

When did Edward Plant travel to America for this Barton business?

Regards,

Simon
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  #53  
Old 07-14-2017, 04:41 PM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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Hi David,

When did Edward Plant travel to America for this Barton business?
As you know, that information hasn't survived but what does it matter? He was there when Barton was arrested.

And this has got absolutely nothing to do with my point that it is simply false to say that Jarvis and Pinkertons had "no idea" what Barton looked like.

Not only did they both have a very good idea what Barton looked like, from his description, but they knew he was going under the name of "Harry Cave" and obviously had an English accent.

So why does the statement that they had "no idea" what he looked like survive in your book?
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  #54  
Old 07-14-2017, 04:49 PM
Simon Wood Simon Wood is offline
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Hi David,

I'm interested in how and why Edward Plant travelled to America.

Sorry to nitpick, but it was Henry Cave, and I doubt he sported an "English" accent.

Regards,

Simon
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  #55  
Old 07-14-2017, 05:02 PM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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Quote:
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I'm interested in how and why Edward Plant travelled to America.
I just told you why he travelled to America.

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Sorry to nitpick, but it was Henry Cave, and I doubt he sported an "English" accent.
Two silly statements in one sentence. You are excelling yourself. Harry and Henry are interchangeable, as you must know, and Barton was from Macclesfield so I don't suppose he had an American accent did he?
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  #56  
Old 07-14-2017, 05:04 PM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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To bring this back to my question despite your attempts to change the subject.

Why have you retained the statement in your book that Jarvis and Pinkertons had "no idea" what Barton looked like when, as you must know, because it was in my articles which you read, that they had a very good idea what he looked like?
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  #57  
Old 07-14-2017, 05:10 PM
Simon Wood Simon Wood is offline
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Hi David,

Jarvis did not personally know Barton. Nor did he have a photograph by which to recognize him. For purposes of identification, Inspector Jarvis took with him to America Bartonís lifelong friend, Edward Plant.

But this was not true.

Regards,

Simon
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  #58  
Old 07-14-2017, 05:18 PM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Wood View Post
Hi David,

Jarvis did not personally know Barton. Nor did he have a photograph by which to recognize him. For purposes of identification, Inspector Jarvis took with him to America Bartonís lifelong friend, Edward Plant.

But this was not true.
Fascinating though your irrelevant obsession with Edward Plant is, I'm asking you why you have retained in your book the statement that Jarvis and Barton had "no idea" what Barton looked like.

You don't say that they didn't personally know him or that they didn't have a photograph of him, both of which would have been true. You say they had "no idea" what he looked like. So why have you kept this untrue statement in your book?

Do you want to now answer the question.
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  #59  
Old 07-14-2017, 05:29 PM
Simon Wood Simon Wood is offline
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Hi David,

It's a simple enough question.

If Jarvis and the Pinkertons knew what Barton looked like, why did someone think it was a smart idea to go to the expense and bother of shipping Edward Plant across the Atlantic?

The last time Barton had been seen in England was 1886.

This was 1889. What description of Barton was everyone working on?

Regards,

Simon
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Last edited by Simon Wood : 07-14-2017 at 05:30 PM. Reason: spolling mistook
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  #60  
Old 07-15-2017, 12:39 AM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Wood View Post
Hi David,

It's a simple enough question.

If Jarvis and the Pinkertons knew what Barton looked like, why did someone think it was a smart idea to go to the expense and bother of shipping Edward Plant across the Atlantic?
I've already given the very simple answer Simon.

Barton could not be extradited back to the UK without his identity being proved to the satisfaction of a US (or Canadian) judge. Neither Jarvis nor the Pinkertons were in a position to prove his identity because they had never seen him before. In a time before fingerprints and DNA, there was no other way of doing it. Someone who knew Barton had to be present in America to formally identify him to ensure that his arrest was legal and could not be challenged during the extradition process.

That aside, it seems sensible, if it's possible, to have someone available who could positively identify Barton if you are trying to catch him.

But Edward Plant's presence in America is irrelevant to the question I am asking you about which is why you keep stating in your book that Jarvis and Pinkertons had 'no idea' what Barton looked like. By any standards that is a wholly false statement isn't it?
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