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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Lechmere/Cross, Charles

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  #21  
Old 08-07-2017, 02:39 AM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
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Herlock, I too think Robert Paul makes a better suspect for at least the Nichols murder than Charles Lechmere, and I've mentioned it before.

Consider-- Paul seems to have lied a bit to the magazine people, making his part in the discovery more important than it may have been in reality;

Also-- he didn't come forward to the inquest of his own accord, but had to be tracked down by the police and brought in.

Granted, we can't really link him to the other murders-- except that he lived in Hanbury Street.
Hi Pat

I think that it's just the fact that CL found the body and so had at least 'some' time alone with it is the difference between the two. We can say that CL gave the wrong name at the Inquest but he gained no advantage from it as he gave his correct address. We can point out discrepancies in statements but there's no reason why it has to be CL that lied. Paul did exaggerate his involvement in his Lloyds statement. A statement that he was keen to give as he obviously approached the press to give it rather than the other way around.
The killing and then 'doubling back' is by no means impossible but I'd accept unlikely. He wasn't bothered about touching the body whereas CL was. This has been cited as a suspicious point against CL but maybe it just shows that Paul was more 'comfortable' around a corpse than CL was
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  #22  
Old 08-07-2017, 06:41 AM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
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Hi Pat

I think that it's just the fact that CL found the body and so had at least 'some' time alone with it is the difference between the two. We can say that CL gave the wrong name at the Inquest but he gained no advantage from it as he gave his correct address. We can point out discrepancies in statements but there's no reason why it has to be CL that lied. Paul did exaggerate his involvement in his Lloyds statement. A statement that he was keen to give as he obviously approached the press to give it rather than the other way around.
The killing and then 'doubling back' is by no means impossible but I'd accept unlikely. He wasn't bothered about touching the body whereas CL was. This has been cited as a suspicious point against CL but maybe it just shows that Paul was more 'comfortable' around a corpse than CL was
Just a point to add. Even if we knew for certain that CL and Paul lied about Polly being dead or drunk we could still come up with a non-sinister reason for it. Namely that both men were worried about being late for work and wouldn't have wanted the inevitable delay of being taken back to the scene. They were together but Christer came up with the Mizen Scam to get CL away from Paul so that he could lie to Mizen. There's just no evidence for it though.
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  #23  
Old 08-07-2017, 07:06 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Hi Robert,

Fisherman did make the discovery of what I tend to call 'the name thing,' but I still say that CL didn't gain any advantage from it as he gave his actual address, 22 Doveton Street, at the Inquest . It's interesting to speculate why he used Cross instead of Lechmere but it would have only made me suspicious of him if he'd called himself Fred Smith of 37 Flower and Dean Street for eg.
Hi HS
My personal opinion is that Cross was the name he used because that's what he went by at work, having started there when he was still under the auspices of his stepfather cross, and because that's the reference of the circumstances he was in-a carman on his way to work.

if innocent, he may have also used that name to keep his "domestic" situation out of the news-not wanting it to burden his family.

if guilty-I could totally see why he would do it. He was trying to keep his involvement hidden from friends and family lest they put two and two together. using an alias is common among criminals.
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  #24  
Old 08-07-2017, 07:40 AM
Robert St Devil Robert St Devil is offline
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well, i do have the word "saint" in my name dja which means i can't be all bad. always appreciate these extra bits that you fill in.

my current weightless & opposing suggestion for the "name change" herlock: the weekend of Polly's murder, Lechmere had no idea what a "Jack the Ripper" was, but he could have known what a "High Ripper" was, so he may have been providing some self-protection by not using his last name. iow his mind may have raced to the involvement of gang violence before the idea of a serial killer entered his mind, and he feared criminal reprisals... moreso considering he still had to walk that route to work.
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  #25  
Old 08-07-2017, 09:06 AM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
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Hi HS
My personal opinion is that Cross was the name he used because that's what he went by at work, having started there when he was still under the auspices of his stepfather cross, and because that's the reference of the circumstances he was in-a carman on his way to work.

if innocent, he may have also used that name to keep his "domestic" situation out of the news-not wanting it to burden his family.

if guilty-I could totally see why he would do it. He was trying to keep his involvement hidden from friends and family lest they put two and two together. using an alias is common among criminals.
Hi Abby,

I think that you've just about summed it up. I've also seen it suggested (I can't recall who by though) that he 'might' have even felt that 'Lechmere' sounded a bit foreign?
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  #26  
Old 08-07-2017, 09:07 AM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
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Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
Hi HS
My personal opinion is that Cross was the name he used because that's what he went by at work, having started there when he was still under the auspices of his stepfather cross, and because that's the reference of the circumstances he was in-a carman on his way to work.

if innocent, he may have also used that name to keep his "domestic" situation out of the news-not wanting it to burden his family.

if guilty-I could totally see why he would do it. He was trying to keep his involvement hidden from friends and family lest they put two and two together. using an alias is common among criminals.



Hi Abby,

I think that you've just about summed it up. I've also seen it suggested (I can't recall who by though) that he 'might' have even felt that 'Lechmere' sounded a bit foreign?
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  #27  
Old 08-07-2017, 09:09 AM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
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That's twice in 2 days that I've duplicated a post!

Sorry.

Was it a mistake or is it just a cunning ploy to get my Serjeants promotion quicker
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  #28  
Old 08-07-2017, 09:14 AM
MysterySinger MysterySinger is offline
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Originally Posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
Hi Robert,

Fisherman did make the discovery of what I tend to call 'the name thing,' but I still say that CL didn't gain any advantage from it as he gave his actual address, 22 Doveton Street, at the Inquest . It's interesting to speculate why he used Cross instead of Lechmere but it would have only made me suspicious of him if he'd called himself Fred Smith of 37 Flower and Dean Street for eg.
No I don't believe Fisherman discovered "the name thing". The person who originally discovered it somehow got overshadowed by someone else who "discovered" it years later - neither of which were Fisherman to my knowledge. Fish is, of course, vocal as to Lechmere as a suspect (and does a good job imho but I'm not really convinced by the arguments so far). Someone will supply the correct names from the Boards I'm sure.
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  #29  
Old 08-07-2017, 09:19 AM
Henry Flower Henry Flower is offline
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Hi Abby,

I think that you've just about summed it up. I've also seen it suggested (I can't recall who by though) that he 'might' have even felt that 'Lechmere' sounded a bit foreign?
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  #30  
Old 08-07-2017, 09:19 AM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert St Devil View Post
well, i do have the word "saint" in my name dja which means i can't be all bad. always appreciate these extra bits that you fill in.

my current weightless & opposing suggestion for the "name change" herlock: the weekend of Polly's murder, Lechmere had no idea what a "Jack the Ripper" was, but he could have known what a "High Ripper" was, so he may have been providing some self-protection by not using his last name. iow his mind may have raced to the involvement of gang violence before the idea of a serial killer entered his mind, and he feared criminal reprisals... moreso considering he still had to walk that route to work.
Good suggestion Robert. The only doubt that I can think of is that he did give his address at the Inquest. Maybe CL just didn't think it through. No one is suggesting that he was Professor Moriarty Of course.
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