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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Lechmere/Cross, Charles

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  #11  
Old 12-08-2016, 08:12 AM
Patrick S Patrick S is offline
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Patrick S: Seeing as Lechmere's mother and daughter were living near Berner Street (and Stride) do you feel that crediting the Ripper (and Lechmere) for Stride is important for fitting Lechmere into the killers presumed/likely movements on the night of the "Double Event" and Mitre Square (Eddowes)?

I am not doing any "fitting" here, Patrick. I am working from the assumption that Lechmere killed Nichols, and I think that Nichols belonged to a serie of killings perpetrated by the same man, so I am reasoning that Lechmere must be the best bid for the others in the series too.
From there, I look at where the other killings went down, and I try to see if I can make sense of the locations visavi Lechmere - after all, I am reasoning that he killed Nichols and the rest, and so trying to find some sort of pattern that makes sense is vital.
We can all see that four out of six victims fell prey at sites that seemingly tally with the logical routes Lechmere would have walked to Broad Street. Any of these murders could have been to the north, the east or the south of Bucks Row, but they are all to the west, and none of them are out of what would have been the quickest and easiest routes to Broad Street. Lechmere therefore seems to fit the bill in these cases.
The Stride/Eddowes combination does not fit the working trek bill. But Stride was killed in the very area where Lechmere had spent most of his life, and where he would be totally aquainted with the surroundings. Plus he would reasonably have had ample reason to visit the area.
Eddowes was killed in Mitre Square, and Mitre Square lies pretty much along the route Lechmere would reasonably have used when walking from James Street to Broad Street for a long stretch of years. He would, as I have pointed out, have had every reasom to be familiar with the fact that prostitution was rife up at St Botolphs and on the surrounding streets, so if he had killed Stride and gone searching for another victim, the area around St Botolphs would have served many purposes - it would provide prostitutes/victims, it would take him out of the Met searchlight and it would put him close to Broad Street, in a surrounding that would have been well known to him. And it would explain Longs not seeing the rag in Goulston Street at 2.20.
I also reason that we have six victims, and that four out of these were killed along his logical work treks. Therefore, these would preferably need to align with working days, and they would preferably need to align with the approximate time at which Lechmere seems to have walked to Broad Street.
Interestingly, they all do.
The other two victims seem to have been killed on a night when Lechmere was not due in Broad Street on the following day - they were killed on his evening off, if he worked normal weeks. And they were NOT killed between 3 and 4 AM.
It therefore adds up very well.
We can divide the victims up in a C4 and a C2 group, and if we do, we can observe that if we move any of the C4 victims north or south, east of Doveton Street or west of Broad Street, the alignment goes away.
Same thing if we move the killing times to two hours earlier or later - and the presumption that he killed en route to work goes awry.
None of these things happen, however.
If we move any of the C2 victims into his working trek area, things become strange too, for the same reason - what was he doing there on a Saturday night?
In the context they were killed, however, they make perfect sense.
Lechmere is totally unique in this respect - no other suspect comes anywhere close to filling his costume when it comes to identifyable reasons to have been at all six murder sites.
Lechmere is therefore the person who fits in. I am not doing that fitting - I am pointing to how he does it.


I ask because Mitre Square was much nearer to Broad Street and Pickford's than it was to Berner Street. It would seem more reasonable that if Lechmere had decided to find a victim near Mitre Square he would have done so within the pattern that had held for Tabram, Nichols, and Chapman (along his route to work).

In neither of those cases were the police swarming the Met area on account of a freshly perpetrated murder, though. So it makes sense to me that he chose the City grounds, taking him out of harmīs way.
And why would he kill along his route to work if he was not working? It was Saturday night, and he was not walking the work trek streets.
I would suggest that the Ripper murders were all opportunist slayings. I donīt think he stalked either of the victims, I think he pounced when he felt the situation allowed for it. I feel certain that he will have walked past a large number of potential victims on account of not liking the surroundings. Killing en route to work would equal killing in the window of opportunity that opened up each morning. It was dark, he was alone, the streets were more or less empty and there were lonely streetwalkers to be found. It would be the ideal hunting ground for a killer of the type we are looking at.
Stride was not killed along his working route. She was slain some way south of it. If he chose between walking up to the area where he had killed thrice before and walking west into city territory, I think he made the opportunists choice here too - he would have judged it a place that combined much prey with more safety than his earlier haunts.
Thanks. FYI - I didn't purposely use the term "fitting" in order to insult. "Tie" him to the killer's presumed movements....that kind of thing. That's what I meant.
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  #12  
Old 12-08-2016, 08:22 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Originally Posted by Patrick S View Post
Thanks. FYI - I didn't purposely use the term "fitting" in order to insult. "Tie" him to the killer's presumed movements....that kind of thing. That's what I meant.
Iīm sorer than a squirrel caught between the fronts of two Landrovers violating the speed limit, Patrick, thatīs why I always defend myself in these situations.
Thanks for clarifying and sorry for whining...
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  #13  
Old 12-08-2016, 08:51 AM
Patrick S Patrick S is offline
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Iīm sorer than a squirrel caught between the fronts of two Landrovers violating the speed limit, Patrick, thatīs why I always defend myself in these situations.
Thanks for clarifying and sorry for whining...
To be clear, just so you know my intentions going forward,. I have not recently and will not in the future ask questions in order to have you defend yourself. I'm just looking to better understand and to try and build a picture of Lechmere (as JtR) and any relationships he may or may not have had with victims, crime scenes, etc.

For my part I'll do my best to not use phrases like "you're wrong" or "that's absurd"....anything along those lines. I'll let you know when I disagree or when I'm having trouble. In the end, this is all opinion based on research, knowledge, experience. I have no business telling you that you're wrong since I have no way of proving it. I've been a prick in the past. I won't be going forward.
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  #14  
Old 12-08-2016, 09:29 AM
Pierre Pierre is offline
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[quote=Fisherman;402808]

And you say it just like that:

Quote:
...after all, I am reasoning that he killed Nichols and the rest,...
And the rest =

Chapman.
Stride.
Eddowes.
Kelly.
The Whitehall case.
Jackson.
McKenzie.
Pinchin Street case.

And yet you have not one single source for anyone of those. No indication Lechmere was there.

Thank heavens you are not an historian.

Regards, Pierre
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  #15  
Old 12-08-2016, 09:32 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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[quote=Pierre;402828]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post

And you say it just like that:



And the rest =

Chapman.
Stride.
Eddowes.
Kelly.
The Whitehall case.
Jackson.
McKenzie.
Pinchin Street case.

And yet you have not one single source for anyone of those. No indication Lechmere was there.

Thank heavens you are not an historian.

Regards, Pierre
Pierre of course forgot the 1873 torso case, the 1874 torso case, the 1884 Totteham torso case, the 1887 Rainham case and Martha Tabram.

Thank heavens he is not a historian!
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  #16  
Old 12-08-2016, 09:33 AM
Pierre Pierre is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
Iīm sorer than a squirrel caught between the fronts of two Landrovers violating the speed limit, Patrick, thatīs why I always defend myself in these situations.
Thanks for clarifying and sorry for whining...
Yes. You certainly have your own Cross to bear.
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  #17  
Old 12-08-2016, 09:34 AM
Pierre Pierre is offline
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[quote=Fisherman;402829]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post

Pierre of course forgot the 1873 torso case, the 1874 torso case, the 1884 Totteham torso case, the 1887 Rainham case and Martha Tabram.

Thank heavens he is not a historian!
I do not include those cases in this case. You do.

So I am not forgetting them. It is you who think you remember something when there is nothing to remember.

There is no data indicating that Lechmere killed anyone of all those.
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  #18  
Old 12-08-2016, 09:38 AM
jerryd jerryd is offline
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[quote=Pierre;402828]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post

And you say it just like that:



And the rest =

Chapman.
Stride.
Eddowes.
Kelly.
The Whitehall case.
Jackson.
McKenzie.
Pinchin Street case.

And yet you have not one single source for anyone of those. No indication Lechmere was there.

Thank heavens you are not an historian.

Regards, Pierre
Sounds like your story Pierre. Not one single source. At least not one provided on this forum. But you add the extra element of no name. At least Christer can provide a name and place his suspect near the scene of one of the murders.
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  #19  
Old 12-08-2016, 09:45 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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[quote=Pierre;402833]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post

I do not include those cases in this case. You do.
And now he thinks HE is the one to define which murders I include in "the rest".

A true historian if I ever saw one.
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  #20  
Old 12-08-2016, 09:51 AM
jerryd jerryd is offline
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[quote=Fisherman;402835]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post

And now he thinks HE is the one to define which murders I include in "the rest".

A true historian if I ever saw one.

Remember Christer, Pierre will be in BIG trouble with the source fairies if he let's them down. He is very troubled that the fairies asked him to be the one to have to bear the cross of knowing who the ripper was. That's a HUGE burden on anyone, you know? How could the source fairies be so mean?
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