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Do you think William Herbert Wallace was guilty?

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  • Originally posted by caz View Post
    Thanks John. Well if his interest in chemistry was known about - or could easily have come to light - he'd have been taking a double risk by choosing poison and hoping her death certificate would record some natural cause and not be questioned.

    The method adopted by the killer doesn't help to clear or incriminate Wallace. But if he was guilty it wasn't a bad choice, because it was plausibly a spur-of-the-moment act of brutality by someone who picked up the nearest blunt instrument, which would not fit well with Wallace setting the whole thing up with the Qualtrough call the night before. It would fit better with someone who wanted access to Julia and/or the family valuables, but hadn't intended to commit the capital crime of murder.

    I still think it's possible that Julia and a lover arranged the Qualtrough business - the unfamiliar name and non-existent address - to give themselves some more time together, and something went horribly wrong. Sex is a strong enough motivator to want a husband out of the way, but with Julia still in the house and not a huge amount to steal, a money motive would seem weaker, and smacks to me of a red herring.

    I realise a lover would have preferred to get out sharpish after killing the object of his being there, but he'd have felt safer in the long run to stage the robbery if there was any chance that Julia had confided in a friend about his existence. It would be unlikely, in my view, that Julia would have gone into fine details with a friend about times and places, but she might have let a name slip, or something else that could help identify the man. If the police found him and asked questions, at least the robbery would suggest a motive other than adultery.

    Incidentally, Parry wouldn't necessarily have been the lover if she took one. It could have been anyone really, as she must have gone out shopping and so on by herself on occasions, and there will always be men out there who can use flattery to good advantage, and don't care who they use it on if it does the trick. If there was a sexual imbalance between the Wallaces, or perhaps a lack of physical affection on his part (he said he patted her on the shoulder as he left, not even a peck on the cheek), a woman of 69 was not too old to yearn for some intimacy. Either of them could have been feeling the age difference more keenly by this stage of the relationship, with Wallace possibly losing interest in the physical side, and Julia in turn needing reassurance that she wasn't totally past it.

    Blimey, I'd better watch out, I am older than my old man to the tune of four and a half years.

    Love,

    Caz
    X
    Hi Caz,

    Thanks, I think you make some excellent points. Regarding Wallace's interest in chemistry, he actually had a laboratory at home so it was an interest that he would be difficult to disguise! However, that wouldn't necessarily have presented him from arrogantly believing he could get away with a poisoning.

    I agree that the method adopted by the killer is more consistent with an unplanned attack, possibly perpetrated by a lover or as a consequence of a robbery gone wrong. Interestingly, the front bedroom was in a state of some disarray, with bedclothes half on and half off the bed, and two pillows lying in the fireplace. Two hats and three handbags of Julia's were also on the bed. Does this scene suggest that Julia may have been entertaining a lover, not necessarily Parry? One difficulty, however, with the murder by lover argument is that it might be expected that an argument, maybe a violent argument, would have preceded the assault and, of course, the neighbours heard nothing.

    In respect of the robbery, the cabinet where the insurance money was kept was forced, and £4 was taken from the cash box. I think this strongly suggests that the crime was carried out by someone who was familiar with the Wallace household, i.e. because they seemed to know where the collection money was kept, and this would tend to exclude a common burglar, such as the Anfield housebreaker.

    I agree there are problems with a money motive.Thus, there was money and silver in Julia's handbag that wasn't taken, and £5 that Wallace kept upstairs in a jar was also untouched. This goes against robbery as a principal motive; it also causes further problems for Wallace's candidacy, as he drew the police's attention to the untouched £5-he could, of course, have kept quiet about it-undermining the alternative robbery scenario which he was supposed to have staged.

    As an afterthought, I think the forced cabinet creates problems for my theory that Parry committed the murder following a robbery gone wrong. After all, it was hardly a subtle act, so it's difficult to see how he could have avoided drawing Julia's attention to what he was doing.
    Last edited by John G; 11-16-2016, 03:15 PM.

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    • Originally posted by John G View Post
      Interestingly, the front bedroom was in a state of some disarray, with bedclothes half on and half off the bed, and two pillows lying in the fireplace. Two hats and three handbags of Julia's were also on the bed. Does this scene suggest that Julia may have been entertaining a lover, not necessarily Parry?
      This is unlikely. As I mention in my book, Julia often kept clothes on the bed in the front bedroom, according to the housekeeper. The sheet from the bed was found on the kitchen table along with her sewing kit. This might explain why the pillows were removed from the bed (to allow her to get to the sheet). What she was doing with sheet on the kitchen table we do not know.
      Author of Cold Case Jury books: Move To Murder (2nd Edition) (2021), The Shark Arm Mystery (2020), Poisoned at the Priory (2020), Move to Murder (2018), Death of an Actress (2018), The Green Bicycle Mystery (2017) - "Armchair detectives will be delighted" - Publishers Weekly. Author of Crime & Mystery Hour - short fictional crime stories. And for something completely different - I'm the co-founder of Wow-Vinyl - celebrating the Golden Years of the British Single (1977-85)

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      • Originally posted by ColdCaseJury View Post
        This is unlikely. As I mention in my book, Julia often kept clothes on the bed in the front bedroom, according to the housekeeper. The sheet from the bed was found on the kitchen table along with her sewing kit. This might explain why the pillows were removed from the bed (to allow her to get to the sheet). What she was doing with sheet on the kitchen table we do not know.
        Thanks for the reply. This is information that I'd obviously forgotten, although my excuse is that it is some time since I read your book!

        However, if we assume that Julia was murdered as result of a conspiracy involving Wallace, then quite obviously presenting a botched robbery as a likely scenario was integral to the plot. Therefore, as I noted in my earlier post, why would Wallace effectively undermine this scenario by drawing attention to the fact that £5 that he kept upstairs in a jar-a sum larger than that taken from the cabinet (the insurance money)-was untouched?

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        • Originally posted by Graham View Post
          Although Menlove Gardens East (per the phone message) didn't exist, Menlove Gardens North and Menlove Gardens West did exist, which would have given Wallace a starting-point. One thing that puzzles me, though, is that as a long-term resident of Liverpool, and also an insurance collector who travelled his rounds via public transport and on foot, he ought to have had a very good knowledge of the locality and its streets, and perhaps should have known that the street named in the phone call didn't exist. This to me is one little fly in the ointment with regard to his innocence.
          Some years ago I moved to Oxford. I take long walks through the city just for health and exercise, and I go off in random directions. Over the years I've built up a pretty good mental map of the city and know even some fairly obscure streets by name, in fact for a very few streets I know their names and how they've changed over the last 200 years or so. Oxford used to have far more colourful street names than it does today.

          Anyway, MOST of the time I've been stopped and asked for directions, I'm pretty good at directing people, but every so often someone will ask for a street which I have never heard of in my life. In one, rather embarrassing case, I was asked for directions to a street while standing in the middle of that street and explaining that I wasn't aware of any street in the area by that name.

          In another example, about a year ago I went to a tiny village looking for a military surplus shop. I had a street address and the village was so tiny that I didn't bother to look up on a map where exactly it was.

          Got to the village, drove up and down it's only two streets and no sign of any military surplus shop. I asked for directions from multiple people, and no one I spoke to had ever heard of the road or the shop.
          I went down a random, small, unpromising road on a whim, and within about 30 seconds arrived at a giant trading estate, which included the shop I was looking for. Some of the people I asked lived less than a minute's drive from a large trading estate and seemed to know nothing of it.

          I've been to Liverpool and I could well imagine with an area that size, much larger than humble old Oxford, that there could be many streets lurking about.

          If there were similarly named streets, then Wallace either muddled up Menlove Gardens East with Menlove Gardens West

          OR

          He assumed, as you might do, that Menlove Gardens East was a very tiny, unimportant street in the same area.


          It's also worth strongly noting, something that might throw off any American readers for instance, is how achingly extremely bad British roads are sign posted, compared to American ones. And how the names of road will just up and change in the middle of a road for a stretch.

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          • Originally posted by Graham View Post

            With regard to the phone-call from 'Mr Qualtrough', I can only suggest that it was either a set-up, or had been mis-heard by Samuel Beattie. If it was a set-up, and Mr Beattie noted down the details correctly, then I can only think it was to get Wallace out of his house at a particular time for whatever reason. But all this is obvious. What I still can't get my head around is why go to such lengths? For example, it was probably widely known among his acquaintances, and one assumes that Parry is included, that Wallace went to his chess-club fairly regularly in the evening, leaving Julia alone in the house. If Parry or anyone else wished to enter the house while Wallace was out, surely all he had to do was knock the door which I assume Julia would answer.
            Surely this also works in Wallace's favour as well?

            Wallace wouldn't need to construct some unusual alibi, such as the hunt for the non-existent address.

            He could have simply had his alibi by being at the chess club.

            Far less suspicions would be brought against him if he was simply carrying out his normal routine, than following a wild goose chase from a prank telephone call?

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            • Originally posted by Limehouse View Post
              He certainly seems to have spoken to a number of people that evening. Good for establishing or strengthening an alibi, I would think?
              Perhaps, but we also have to remember this is 1931.

              Wallace has a phone call offering him a large commission.

              Surely, in the midst of a horrific economic depression, he might pursue the hope of a good deal of earnings with some enthusiasm, and not just give up because someone may have written the address very slightly wrong?

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              • Originally posted by ColdCaseJury View Post
                Yes, Julia Wallace (nee Denis) was born in 1861. This biographical bombshell was discovered by James Murphy, and verified by John Gannon. It appears Julia lied about her age when she got married. As I point out in my book, William must have realised that she was a lot older than she said, especially ten years into the marriage... yet, he told the police she was 52 years old when she died.

                An important upshot is that we know nothing of Julia's life from (approx) 1875 - 1905. What happened in these 'lost' 30 years? Does it have any bearing on her death? We don't know.
                Thanks CCJ. Very interesting. And yes, there is no way even a very young looking bride could have fooled her new husband with a whopping 17 year age difference. The best I managed was when asked in a pub if I was 18. I was 28 at the time.

                I wonder why Wallace lied to the police about it when Julia was no longer around to worry. If Julia really was vain enough - or insecure enough - to portray herself as a much younger woman, she might well have had a 'past' that came back to haunt her, or some 'present' entanglement that went wrong.

                Maybe this mystery was always more about Julia than her husband.

                Love,

                Caz
                X
                "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


                Comment


                • Originally posted by ColdCaseJury View Post
                  As I mention in my book, Julia often kept clothes on the bed in the front bedroom, according to the housekeeper. The sheet from the bed was found on the kitchen table along with her sewing kit. This might explain why the pillows were removed from the bed (to allow her to get to the sheet). What she was doing with sheet on the kitchen table we do not know.
                  Mending a tear seems a likely bet. I remember my Mum mending the white cotton sheets we had back in the 50s and 60s. The materials used these days are stronger and people rarely mend bedclothes now - they just buy new.

                  Love,

                  Caz
                  X
                  "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by caz View Post
                    Thanks CCJ. Very interesting. And yes, there is no way even a very young looking bride could have fooled her new husband with a whopping 17 year age difference. The best I managed was when asked in a pub if I was 18. I was 28 at the time.

                    I wonder why Wallace lied to the police about it when Julia was no longer around to worry. If Julia really was vain enough - or insecure enough - to portray herself as a much younger woman, she might well have had a 'past' that came back to haunt her, or some 'present' entanglement that went wrong.

                    Maybe this mystery was always more about Julia than her husband.

                    Love,

                    Caz
                    X
                    Caz, some nice points, especially about the mystery being about Julia. I've long held there is something missing from this case, something we don't know. The fact is, we don't know Julia Wallace, do we?

                    "The best I managed was when asked in a pub if I was 18. I was 28 at the time." That's impressive! I can only imagine it was a mistake made by an older person (18 now looks like 12 to me!)
                    Author of Cold Case Jury books: Move To Murder (2nd Edition) (2021), The Shark Arm Mystery (2020), Poisoned at the Priory (2020), Move to Murder (2018), Death of an Actress (2018), The Green Bicycle Mystery (2017) - "Armchair detectives will be delighted" - Publishers Weekly. Author of Crime & Mystery Hour - short fictional crime stories. And for something completely different - I'm the co-founder of Wow-Vinyl - celebrating the Golden Years of the British Single (1977-85)

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                    • Originally posted by ColdCaseJury View Post
                      I can only imagine it was a mistake made by an older person (18 now looks like 12 to me!)
                      Older and very short-sighted I'd imagine.

                      Love,

                      Caz
                      X
                      "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


                      Comment


                      • Wallace, if he made the call, needs to at the minimum hope for the following things

                        1) that the phone will be answered by someone who can reliably and undoubtedly recognise his voice. So that the testimony that it wasn't his voice would be very strong. Not just some passing acquaintance or unknown person who might be swayed on the witness stand

                        2) that the person who can reliably recognise his voice - doesn't. So he has to completely trust he can hoax this person

                        3) that the person takes the message, doesn't just advise they ring back a little later when Wallace is there


                        It seems to me that the voice on the line was not Wallace's.

                        This leads me to speculate that the person called when they were sure Wallace wasn't there because had the person answering said "yes I'll put him on now." That Wallace would have been able to recognise their voice and the ruse would be up

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                        • I have read a lot of comments that the guilty party obviously knew the location where Wallace kept the takings and that the takings being placed back where they were originally implicates Wallace -- that he acted from force of habit whilst faking the robbery.

                          However an alternative play of events must also be possible -

                          I am an armed third party.
                          I know Wallace has money about the place.
                          So armed with some dangerous blunt instrument I threaten Julia and tell her to give me the cash from the takings and she won't be harmed.

                          She goes, retrieves them, takes out the cash as instructed and replaces the rest to where they are usually kept.

                          It is only some time after this act that she is killed

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                          • Originally posted by John G View Post

                            I'm not aware of any other evidence for a conspiracy, apart from Wallace's strange comment to Florence Johnston: "They've finished her." How could he know there was more than one assailant? Of course, this could have been a simple slip of the tongue, especially as he might well have been in shock at the time.
                            .
                            To me they just means some unknown person or persons.
                            They, whoever they are, have liked her.

                            I would say "they've killed her" if I didn't know the identity of the killer.

                            Any other comment I can think of would imply some knowledge or at least suspicion of a specific murderer

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                            • Originally posted by Charles Daniels View Post
                              I have read a lot of comments that the guilty party obviously knew the location where Wallace kept the takings and that the takings being placed back where they were originally implicates Wallace -- that he acted from force of habit whilst faking the robbery.

                              However an alternative play of events must also be possible -

                              I am an armed third party.
                              I know Wallace has money about the place.
                              So armed with some dangerous blunt instrument I threaten Julia and tell her to give me the cash from the takings and she won't be harmed.

                              She goes, retrieves them, takes out the cash as instructed and replaces the rest to where they are usually kept.

                              It is only some time after this act that she is killed
                              Charles, you've made some really interesting points in your recent posts. The devil is in the detail in the last line of this post, however. Why, if an armed intruder forced Julia to reveal the location of the cash box in the kitchen, was she found dead in the front parlour where the gas fire was on? We know the front parlour was used only for musical evenings of the Wallaces or if they received a (welcome) visitor. And why was Wallace's partially burnt mackintosh stuffed under her shoulder?
                              Author of Cold Case Jury books: Move To Murder (2nd Edition) (2021), The Shark Arm Mystery (2020), Poisoned at the Priory (2020), Move to Murder (2018), Death of an Actress (2018), The Green Bicycle Mystery (2017) - "Armchair detectives will be delighted" - Publishers Weekly. Author of Crime & Mystery Hour - short fictional crime stories. And for something completely different - I'm the co-founder of Wow-Vinyl - celebrating the Golden Years of the British Single (1977-85)

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                              • This is quite interesting. Forgive me if it has already been posted on this thread.


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                                This is simply my opinion

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