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25 YEARS OF THE DIARY OF JACK THE RIPPER: THE TRUE FACTS by Robert Smith

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  • Originally posted by rjpalmer View Post

    PS. Barrett also wrote an unpublished novel for children, "Danny the Dolphin." I remember the P.I. Grey beating him up over it, as it was supposedly an example of Mike's lack of writing skill. "It was %$$@# Mike! It was #@$%%!" I felt sorry for the guy.
    I'll bet it was no worse than "Budgie The Little Helicopter".

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    • Thanks. all, for the various suggestions as to the possible meaning of Battlecrease.
      I won't always agree but I'll try not to be disagreeable.

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      • Originally posted by Bridewell View Post
        Thanks. all, for the various suggestions as to the possible meaning of Battlecrease.
        Come on folks, it's staring you in the face. 'Battlecrease' is an anagram

        'Scalee Barett' - Barrett the Scally. The answer has been there all along, in scouse no less. Now the question we need to answer is, how did Mike Barrett manage to inveigle a clue to his own authorship into the name of a house that has existed since long before his birth, let alone his forgery?

        And we still think he was just an untalented nobody? Come on, people! Dark forces are at work, wheels within wheels....

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        • Here's a new one!

          Diary, p44: "Am I not a clever fellow. Out foxed them all, they will never know"

          Earliest cited example for "outfox" in the Oxford English Dictionary is in 1962.

          Click image for larger version

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          All five examples came from American/Canadian publications or authors. I don't know when the expression first came into common usage in Britain, but I'd imagine it was rather later.
          Kind regards, Sam Flynn

          "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

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          • Letter published in the Lincolnshire newspaper, the Boston Guardian of 9 December 1893, from a J.P. O'Donoghue (referencing the use of John Fox's 'Book of Martyrs'), contains the sentence:

            "Yes, he has proudly, - in the last years of the XIXth century, - out-foxed Fox himself."

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            • Read Mr Orsam's piece on the Diary, and I really must say it is excellent. It seems then that Mike Barrett was capable of stringing a few sentences together, a far cry from Caz's assertion that he wasn't capable of filling in a sick note! Far worse though, are those posters who did not get to meet Mike Barrett, and blindly led by the likes of Caz cry "Barrett was a drunken sot, not capable of producing the Diary". Or words to that effect. In my opinion, Mike Barrett boxed then up like so many kippers

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              • Originally posted by David Orsam View Post
                Letter published in the Lincolnshire newspaper, the Boston Guardian of 9 December 1893, from a J.P. O'Donoghue (referencing the use of John Fox's 'Book of Martyrs'), contains the sentence:

                "Yes, he has proudly, - in the last years of the XIXth century, - out-foxed Fox himself."
                Thanks, David, but that doesn't seem to be used in the same way. To me, this is saying that someone "did something more 'John Fox-ish' than John Fox himself", like someone might say "Prokofiev's Classical Symphony out-Mozarted Mozart". I don't think it's being used to mean "outsmarted", in the modern meaning of the word.

                I can't see that someone at the end of the 19th Century could have been said to "outwit" or "get the better of" John Foxe, who died 400 years earlier.
                Last edited by Sam Flynn; 09-23-2017, 04:35 AM.
                Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

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                • Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
                  Here's a new one!

                  Diary, p44: "Am I not a clever fellow. Out foxed them all, they will never know"

                  Earliest cited example for "outfox" in the Oxford English Dictionary is in 1962.

                  [ATTACH]18319[/ATTACH]

                  All five examples came from American/Canadian publications or authors. I don't know when the expression first came into common usage in Britain, but I'd imagine it was rather later.
                  I've found an earlier unambiguous reference, namely a 1949 cartoon featuring Droopy called "Out-Foxed". Again, this is an American source.
                  Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                  "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

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                  • From the South London Press, 25 August 1866:

                    "In the foreground, too, Bismarck, the astutest of the astute, just laughing as he felt how he had turned the tables upon the cleverest monarch in Europe; how he had outfoxed the oldest fox; and with a single move on the chess-board of war and diplomacy checkmated the king and won all on the board."

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                    • Yorkshire Evening Post, 2 March 1900:

                      "Military men in Italy now express unbounded admiration of the English Generals, who, they say, "have out-foxed the fox, Cronje." "

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                      • Originally posted by David Orsam View Post
                        Yorkshire Evening Post, 2 March 1900:

                        "Military men in Italy now express unbounded admiration of the English Generals, who, they say, "have out-foxed the fox, Cronje." "
                        That nails it, thanks.
                        Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                        "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
                          That nails it, thanks.
                          Hi sam
                          Yeah and especially with englands long history of fox hunting I would find it hard to believe that out fox wasn't a rather common expression. Nice try though!
                          "Is all that we see or seem
                          but a dream within a dream?"

                          -Edgar Allan Poe


                          "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                          quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                          -Frederick G. Abberline

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                          • Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
                            Hi sam
                            Yeah and especially with englands long history of fox hunting I would find it hard to believe that out fox wasn't a rather common expression. Nice try though!
                            Thanks, Abby, but I was thinking more along the lines of Br'er Rabbit "outfoxing" Br'er Fox. It's not too difficult for a pack of twenty dogs and as many men on horseback to get the better of a wee fox: "the unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable", as Oscar Wilde aptly described it
                            Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                            "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
                              Thanks, David, but that doesn't seem to be used in the same way. To me, this is saying that someone "did something more 'John Fox-ish' than John Fox himself", like someone might say "Prokofiev's Classical Symphony out-Mozarted Mozart".
                              Poor Haydn, being written out of history yet again....

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                              • Originally posted by Mike J. G. View Post
                                I'm still a bit worried that you seem to totally disregard plausibility and probability so easily, Herlock. The entire Maybrick saga is one long exercise in the study of probability.

                                To ignore one coincidence after another is disconcerting for anyone who is truly willing to seek the truth.
                                For me Mike, and I'm not being exact here, 4 x unexplained's / 2 x coincidences / 4 x unlikely' and a doubt do not constitute proof. I want to be as certain as I can be before I count something out.
                                Just because something is unknown it can't be hijacked for one side of an arguement. Just because something maybe unlikely behaviour to us it doesn't mean that it would have been unlikely behaviour for someone else. I don't see coincidences as proof0f anything except that it's possible that a coincidence occurred.
                                Regards

                                Sir Herlock Sholmes.

                                “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

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