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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Doctors and Coroners

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  #21  
Old 05-17-2008, 09:03 PM
paul emmett paul emmett is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Wood View Post
Coincidence? If not, why would Her Majesty's Government take the advice of a Divisional Surgeon on the matter of pardons to accomplices.
Hello, Simon, All.

Great thread! I have learned a lot. Simon, the above quote has to be correct. Phillips knows something. What do you think? Also interesting that last week you brought up the conversation between Phillips and Stuart-Wortley, on the "Last Witness" thread, but then I just missed it. Sorry, as I said, I'm learning.

Tom, do we know anything more about what the Doc took home?
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  #22  
Old 05-17-2008, 09:19 PM
Simon Wood Simon Wood is offline
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Hi Paul,

From my reading of events, all I can say is that Doctor Phillips knew more than he was willing/allowed to state as a matter of record.

Regards,

Simon
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  #23  
Old 05-18-2008, 12:02 AM
Natalie Severn Natalie Severn is offline
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....and one of the things the good doctor knew,was that there were three people in the room that night!
Lets guess....Mary,and could it have been Mr Astrakhan and Mr Carroty Moustache? ? ?

Thanks for this Simon.A real treat it is too!
Best
Norma
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  #24  
Old 05-18-2008, 12:09 AM
paul emmett paul emmett is offline
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Hi, Norma. Interesting point. But how do you think he knew that?
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  #25  
Old 05-18-2008, 12:50 AM
Natalie Severn Natalie Severn is offline
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Well Paul,I dont to be honest!But thinking about it,Mary was seen with old carotty moustache at about 11.30 -I seem to remember, and nobody saw him leave -he was listening to Mary"s rendition of "violets" well into the night.Mary went out at 2 am---and according to Hutchinson she then greeted Mr Astrakhan with the [code?] words,"I have lost my handkerchief" and on cue he produced a red handkerchief and they both walked off, arm in arm,laughing .

Now Dr Phillips clearly suspects only one of them of being the murderer,the other he thinks was an accomplice. As for what he found that gave rise to his suspicions that there was the murderer and another person, who may have assisted the murderer, could it have been a red handkerchief and an empty quart can ?
Best
Norma
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  #26  
Old 05-18-2008, 01:01 AM
Simon Wood Simon Wood is offline
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Hi Paul and Norma,

Don't let's put the cart before the horse. So far all this is speculation, and it must remain so until we have more to work with. Putting Mr Astrakhan and/or Mr Blotchy in Room 13 with our unknown victim is a real stretch.

If two plus two does equal four all we can deduce thus far is the followingó

Doctor Phillips suspected that more than one person was involved in the Millers Court murder and informed HMG as such on the evening of November 9th.

Based on Phillips' suspicions HMG issued a pardon to an accomplice on November 10th.

But at the same time, and for reasons unknown, the police gave nobody cause to believe the "MJK" murder was anything other than the work of a lone "Ripper".

Solve that conundrum and we're home and dry.

Regards,

Simon
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  #27  
Old 05-18-2008, 01:18 AM
Natalie Severn Natalie Severn is offline
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I wonder too Simon,if our friend Hutch read of the "pardon" to be given to the Ripper"s "accomplice" in The Times of 12th November 1888 ,which caused him to pop into Commercial Street Police Station and ask for that interview with Abberline?
I wonder did he say those things to Abberline or did he say different things to Abberline,which were given the subterfuge of a "walkabout "in Petticoat Lane , the pretext of a "signed statement" and the promise of a safe house?Abberline did something similar regarding the Cleveland St Scandal.Neither the Cleveland Street"s disgraced owners nor Hutchinson were ever seen or heard of again remember.
A Hutchinson "look out" might even begin to make some sort of sense!
Best
Norma-------blown away by all this new stuff!
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  #28  
Old 05-18-2008, 01:35 AM
Simon Wood Simon Wood is offline
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Hi Norma,

GH as accomplice? Quite possible. But to whom?

Maybe GH's sudden disappearance from the face of the earth was part and parcel of an early witness protection programme. If so, was GH his real name?

Abberline scaled new heights of dubiousness on the Cleveland Street scandal, so I'm not ready to rule anything out.

Regards,

Simon
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  #29  
Old 05-18-2008, 01:50 AM
Natalie Severn Natalie Severn is offline
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Thats the way it seems to be shaping Simon.But I must get some sleep now as its nearly midnight here.I was wide awake at 5.30 am because of the Ripper meeting at docklands- a fascinating afternoon and evening it was too......Robin Odell,Stewart Evans and Paul Begg all gave great talks there and Rob House was there from America with lots of interesting things to tell us.

Cheers
Norma
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  #30  
Old 05-18-2008, 05:21 AM
paul emmett paul emmett is offline
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Hello Norma and Simon

Your ideas on GH would certianly explain both the stereotyped JTR description that GH was supposed to give, and why Abberline changed his mind so quickly regarding GH's supposed suspect.

But as far as disappearing, don't most of the characters in the JTR drama just slip into the oblivion of history? Is it different with George? And who did George rat out?

I also agree with Simon that 2+2=4. Phillips suspected that more than one person was "involved" in the killing of MJK. What could make a doctor think that?

Last edited by paul emmett : 05-18-2008 at 05:45 AM.
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