The murder of Elizabeth Camp, 1897

[Stewart P Evans]

Last Two Pages

Here are the last two pages of the letter.

[Jonathan H]

Thanks Stewart,

I have trouble reading the extreme cursive style, but will persevere.

Do you happen to remember the gist of what this person was writing, about the Camp case, in their letter to Sims?

[Debra A]

Thanks Stewart,

I have trouble reading the extreme cursive style, but will persevere.

Do you happen to remember the gist of what this person was writing, about the Camp case, in their letter to Sims?

Yes, thanks to Stewart for posting this letter.
I, like Jonathon, am having problems reading it although I can make out mentions of a wife and the suspect going into a private asylum. It looks like it relates to Prideaux too? Going by the divorce information posted by Chris.

[Chris]

Stewart

Thanks very much for posting this letter. Very interesting. Below is my attempt at a transcript.

It is interesting that the man mentioned has so much in common with Prideaux, but it doesn't seem possible that it can be him, as his first wife, who tried to divorce him, had died in 1899.

_____________________________

Heathlands
Elm Grove Rd
Gorleston on Sea
Sept 6. 08.

Sir,

When you wrote in the "Daily Mail "that the Murderer of Miss Camp was known to Scotland Yard" you little knew what those words meant to one poor woman whose life for years has been an agony of dread. Some months before Miss Camp's murder a man who sprung from a nervous, & insane family shewd signs of suicidal tendency, & destroyed wantonly valuable papers, glass, china, pet animals or anything which attracted his notice At last he was sent to a private asylum & after a month discharged "cured" After this he disappeared at intervals from his home & would give his wife no account of his actions.

After one of these absences he told his wife in the most solemn manner that "while assisting a chemist he had got into a train. He offered Miss Camp insult, she struck him over the head with an umbrella he defended himself with a pestle with fatal results."

This story so preyed on the wife's mind that she told her husband "she could not live with him longer" He said then the statement was only a joke, but remembering he was a "person of unsound mind" & his violent outbursts of temper his wife could not forget the story & has lived apart since then. You can imagine the anguish of dread which would be removed if only the murderer could be found.

The wife has been terribly ill with nervous break down & would lose her appointment if the Police began asking questions so she has asked me to write for her as I am only in Gorleston for a Summer holiday & in apartment & she is a very old friend of mine

Yrs ffy

Miss) [S. or L.] C. Bright

[Jonathan H]

Thanks Chris,

That's a whole lot easier.

Again, whether by accident or design, Macnaghten shielded a respectable family from attention by making the unstable barrister suspect vanish inside another.

Sound familiar?

[Debra A]

Thanks for that, Chris.
I had overlooked the dates in the Prideaux divorce case.

My memory may be faulty here but I seem to recall reading recently that a libel suit sprang out of the Miss Camp case. It wasn't connected to any of the previously named suspects though. Does that ring a bell with anyone else?

[Debra A]

Jonathon, you might like this:

Leicester Chronicle and the Leicestershire Mercury, Saturday, July 10, 1897



There is still the question of whether or not Arthur Marshall was also sent to a lunatic asylum after the murder of Miss Camp though. If he was, then like Chris says, Macnaghten may not have been confusing/fusing two different suspects.

[Debra A]

Just for interest, an article on a Detective's theory that the murderer of Miss Camp may have committed suicide in the Thames.
This may have been posted previously as it sounds familiar but here it is anyway:

Illustrated Police News, Feb 27 1897

[Jonathan H]

My God!

Well done, Debra!

A year before Griffiths' 'Drowned Doctor' a suspect who may have drowned himself in the Thames, and another involving Blackheath, and a mad barrister, and in the Mac memoir suspect fusion of some kind?

And, a libel suit, or the threat of one?!

I think Macnaghten was obsessed with libel, and with protecting the respectable -- including himself.

I take your point that False Moustache Man may have really entered a madhouse.

We'll see ...

[Chris]

Heathlands
Elm Grove Rd
Gorleston on Sea

I couldn't resist having a look at the 1911 census of Elm Grove Road, just to see if there were any married women living there apart from their husbands. Of course, there's nothing in the letter to imply that the author's friend did live there. But on the other hand, directories don't show any boarding houses or similar in the road, so it looks as though Miss Bright was probably staying in Gorleston with a friend - and it does seem likely from the letter that the friend she was writing about was with her in Gorleston at the time.

In the census return, some houses were numbered and some were named (unfortunately none as "Heathlands"), while others had neither a number nor a name. I checked the unnamed houses, and found only one married woman without a husband - Margaret Augusta George, a visitor in the household of William Goold, aged 68, born in Cuxton, Kent.

I don't know whether Mrs George was the woman referred to in the letter, but it's evident enough from census records that she had a tragic marital history. In 1891 and 1901 she was living with her son, Spencer P. S. Harvey (born at Market Overton, Rutland), first at Great Cornard, and later at Shadingfield, Suffolk. Her death was registered at Wangford (which registration district includes Shadingfield) in the first quarter of 1925.

Evidently she was the Margaret Augusta Harvey who was married to William Shaw B. George in the second quarter of 1877 in Oakham registration district (which includes Market Overton). The family, including stepson Spencer, was living at Kingston on Thames in 1881, with William's occupation given as "Surveyor to Insur[ance] Office." He was aged 33 and had been born at Sandgate in Kent.

But where was William in 1891 and later? In 1891 he was living at 81 Hayter Road, Lambeth, with six of his children, the youngest a son aged two. He was still an Insurance Clerk, but for some reason he described himself as a widower. By 1901 he had moved to Brownhill Road, Lewisham, and was again living with six of his children. But even more surprisingly he was now a married man, with a "wife" named Emma. (Whether he went through a form of marriage with her I don't know, but if he did he doesn't seem to have used his middle names.) Apparently he and Emma were living together in Croydon in 1911 (that's judging from the online index to the 1911 census). His death was registered at Croydon in the first quarter of 1928.

Quite possibly none of this has any connection with Miss Bright or the murder of Elizabeth Camp, though it does seem almost worthy of a Wilkie Collins novel. Obviously the biggest discrepancy with the story told in the letter is that Margaret George seems already to have been living apart from her husband by 1891, six years before the murder. Though his South London residences would fit the story well enough.

[Debra A]

Another libel action!

Action for libel and the murder of Miss Camp
Browne against Madge and another
Dec 5 1897

The case for the plaintiff, William Browne, barman,was that some of the statements printed in the press the day after the Miss camp murder pointed to him as a suspected person referred to as Mr X.

The jury returned a verdict for the plaintiff of 500l damages.Browne had also already received 100l and an apology from the Sun newspaper and 75l from the news of the World, plus an apology.

[Jonathan H]

Libel Threat

Great stuff, Debs!

[Chris]

When you wrote in the "Daily Mail "that the Murderer of Miss Camp was known to Scotland Yard" you little knew what those words meant to one poor woman whose life for years has been an agony of dread.

Here is George Sims's letter to the Daily Mail, which was published on 4 September 1908. Unfortunately it's not very informative - Sims says only "There is very little moral doubt as to the murderer of Miss Camp on the South-Western Railway."

[Chris]

And here is the letter to which Sims was responding, which had appeared the previous day. Of course, the interview with Anderson referred to is the well-known one published in the Daily Chronicle on 1 September 1908. The (brief) interview with an anonymous detective in the Pall Mall Gazette appeared on 29 August, but doesn't contain anything helpful.

[m_w_r]

Hi all,

From Famous Crimes, Vol. 7, No. 87:

We have always thought that the brutal murder of young Toner [sic - should read Tower], whose body was found in a reservoir, near Queen Elizabeth's Walk, Stoke Newington, one of the saddest cases within our knowledge. Yes, a woman was at the bottom of it - not the reservoir, but the case. We could a tale unfold etc, etc, if we were not bound by the police to secrecy, but the truth about this case, like that of Miss Camp, may yet be revealed.

Regards,

Mark