Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Main
   

Introduction
Victims
Suspects
Witnesses
Ripper Letters
Police Officials
Official Documents
Press Reports
Victorian London
Message Boards
Ripper Media
Authors
Dissertations
Timelines
Games & Diversions
Photo Archive
Ripper Wiki
Casebook Examiner
Ripper Podcast
About the Casebook

Most Recent Posts:
Witnesses: Our Charles Cross - by MrBarnett 6 minutes ago.
Witnesses: Our Charles Cross - by MrBarnett 45 minutes ago.
Witnesses: Our Charles Cross - by Elamarna 1 hour and 8 minutes ago.
Witnesses: Our Charles Cross - by MrBarnett 1 hour and 19 minutes ago.
Motive, Method and Madness: What was occuring in 1888? - by MrBarnett 3 hours ago.
General Suspect Discussion: Favorite suspect/s? - by MrBarnett 3 hours ago.

Most Popular Threads:
Witnesses: Our Charles Cross - (23 posts)
A6 Murders: A6 Rebooted - (8 posts)
Witnesses: Caroline Maxwell Alibi ? - (6 posts)
Motive, Method and Madness: What was occuring in 1888? - (6 posts)
General Suspect Discussion: Favorite suspect/s? - (4 posts)
Mary Jane Kelly: Mary Kellys Inquest - (3 posts)

Wiki Updates:
Robert Sagar
Edit: Chris
May 9, 2015, 12:32 am
Online newspaper archives
Edit: Chris
Nov 26, 2014, 10:25 am
Joseph Lawende
Edit: Chris
Mar 9, 2014, 10:12 am
Miscellaneous research resources
Edit: Chris
Feb 13, 2014, 9:28 am
Charles Cross
Edit: John Bennett
Sep 4, 2013, 8:20 pm

Most Recent Blogs:
Mike Covell: A DECADE IN THE MAKING.
February 19, 2016, 11:12 am.
Chris George: RipperCon in Baltimore, April 8-10, 2016
February 10, 2016, 2:55 pm.
Mike Covell: Hull Prison Visit
October 10, 2015, 8:04 am.
Mike Covell: NEW ADVENTURES IN RESEARCH
August 9, 2015, 3:10 am.
Mike Covell: UPDDATES FOR THE PAST 11 MONTHS
November 14, 2014, 10:02 am.
Mike Covell: Mike’s Book Releases
March 17, 2014, 3:18 am.

Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > Mary Jane Kelly

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-01-2017, 06:58 AM
j.r-ahde j.r-ahde is offline
Inspector
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: finland, the center of the universe!
Posts: 1,146
Default A theory about some injuries!

Hello you all!

After about eight-nine years, I will start a thread on these forums.

How plausible or not you find these explanations about Mary's injuries:

1. The mutilation of the face: possibly her eyes were open after the throat was cut. Why? Well, The Yorkshire Ripper said he was even more enraged after a similar thing.

2. The badly cut right thigh: possibly Mary kicked him to the balls before a cut to the throat. This is based on the reaction mentioned on nr 1.

3. Based on the photo and the reports, Mary possibly had defensive wounds on her arms and fingers.

All right, all views for and against are welcome!

All the best
Jukka
__________________
"When I know all about everything, I am old. And it's a very, very long way to go!"
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-01-2017, 09:42 AM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 9,105
Default

If I'm not mistaken, the idea that the cuts to the arms and thumb were defensive wounds is a modern suggestion based on the photograph.
As I've mentioned on another thread, deep flesh wounds will bleed if the victim is alive.
The photograph does not show extensive bleeding from those arm wounds. The blood seems to be contained at the wound itself, and not running all over the forearm. They could be post-mortem wounds.

What purpose would a killer have to start denuding flesh from bone, then leave it and move on to some other mutilation?

It's my view that what we see is an unfinished crime scene, he left the room before he could finish whatever he had in mind.
It's an interrupted crime scene again.
__________________
Regards, Jon S.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-01-2017, 06:43 PM
harry harry is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,753
Default

What information exists that there was an interruption?
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-02-2017, 12:38 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 9,105
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by harry View Post
What information exists that there was an interruption?
It's interpretation Harry, like we have with Nichols & Stride. Some think these were interrupted attacks due to possibly unfinished mutilations.
__________________
Regards, Jon S.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-01-2017, 11:39 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
Casebook Supporter
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wales
Posts: 9,941
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wickerman View Post
What purpose would a killer have to start denuding flesh from bone, then leave it and move on to some other mutilation?
For the sheer hell of it?

Alternatively, the removal of the thigh flesh might have been a precursor to the de-fleshing of the lower pelvic/perineal area, including the external genitalia.
__________________
Kind regards, Sam Flynn

"Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-02-2017, 12:02 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
Casebook Supporter
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wales
Posts: 9,941
Default

My suggestion above seems to be borne out by Bond:

"The right thigh was denuded in front to the bone, the flap of skin, including the external organs of generation & part of the right buttock. The left thigh was stripped of skin, fascia & muscles as far as the knee."

... which also suggests that the killer didn't stop at the right thigh.
__________________
Kind regards, Sam Flynn

"Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-02-2017, 12:46 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 9,105
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
My suggestion above seems to be borne out by Bond:

"The right thigh was denuded in front to the bone, the flap of skin, including the external organs of generation & part of the right buttock. The left thigh was stripped of skin, fascia & muscles as far as the knee."

... which also suggests that the killer didn't stop at the right thigh.
In your previous to the above you seemed to suggest the thigh was stripped before the pelvic area (you said 'precursor'). I just wondered how this quote from Bond seems to bear out your claim?
__________________
Regards, Jon S.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-02-2017, 01:01 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
Casebook Supporter
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wales
Posts: 9,941
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wickerman View Post
In your previous to the above you seemed to suggest the thigh was stripped before the pelvic area (you said 'precursor').
Precursor in the sense that I envisage him cutting through the thigh-flesh before going on to removing the flesh from her genital area. In the past, I've referred to the removal of the flesh from the thighs and around the genital area as a "saddle" of flesh.
__________________
Kind regards, Sam Flynn

"Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-02-2017, 02:33 AM
Henry Flower Henry Flower is offline
Inactive
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Hackney Wick
Posts: 1,132
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wickerman View Post
If I'm not mistaken, the idea that the cuts to the arms and thumb were defensive wounds is a modern suggestion based on the photograph.
I've always been of the impression that those are in entirely the wrong position to be defensive wounds. Surely a defensive wound is typically found on a part of the arm or hand that is exposed when the arm is raised into a defensive posture? I've more often seen them on the palms of the hands or the rear of the forearm. These look to me like post-mortem slashes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wickerman View Post
What purpose would a killer have to start denuding flesh from bone, then leave it and move on to some other mutilation?
Maybe the point for him isn't the flesh; the point is the knife, the cut. She is incidental. Just a thought.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-02-2017, 02:42 AM
Harry D Harry D is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 2,163
Default

Why wasn't the uterus taken? That's always puzzled me.
__________________
Hail to the king, baby!
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.