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Old 03-06-2015, 08:05 PM
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SirJohnFalstaff SirJohnFalstaff is offline
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Default Sue Iremonger

From this fine site timeline:
"Sue Iremonger delivers paper 'Jack the Ripper Revisited' to the WADE Conference in June, 1993, detailing her handwriting analysis of a number of Ripper letters and documents."


Anybody know how one can hold of the document?

I'm particularly interested in her view of the "from hell" letter.
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Old 03-06-2015, 08:21 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Isn't she flogging a dead horse?
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Old 03-06-2015, 09:00 PM
GUT GUT is offline
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If you are after some sort of "His Y's descended below the line so he hated his mum" hate to tell you but it's all BS. The only real use for a document examiner is S/He did didn't write it [even then if they go beyond in/consistent I question ther professionalism].
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Old 03-07-2015, 10:29 AM
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SirJohnFalstaff SirJohnFalstaff is offline
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I'm just curious to see if she agreed with Thomas Mann about the From Hell letter.
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Old 03-07-2015, 11:46 AM
jmenges jmenges is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirJohnFalstaff View Post
From this fine site timeline:
"Sue Iremonger delivers paper 'Jack the Ripper Revisited' to the WADE Conference in June, 1993, detailing her handwriting analysis of a number of Ripper letters and documents."


Anybody know how one can hold of the document?

I'm particularly interested in her view of the "from hell" letter.
Several years ago (2009) I tried to locate a copy of this paper and was unsuccessful. In fact, it's somewhat doubtful whether her delivered paper was distributed. Stewart Evan told me then that thought he had a copy filed away somewhere (which I was never provided), but Paul Begg didn't recall having or seeing a paper. Anyway, here are some comments I received from Martin Fido. Hope they are of some interest.

On Iremonger's George Hutchinson signature comparison


1. The Hutchinson signature on the first sheet is definitely written by Badham, probably in conscious imitation of the two on the following sheets, which are definitely written by someone else (i.e. not by Badham. Presumably Hutchinson, Badham just filling in the signature on sheet one, which he’d forgotten to have GH sign.

2. In SI’s [Sue Iremonger’s] opinion the Hutchinson signatures on the last two sheets of the statement are not written by the signatory of Reg Hutchinson’s father’s marriage certificate. But in the light of the 10 year gap between the two documents, she is not prepared to go further than stating it as her opinion.



On Iremonger and 'From Hell'

I don't know any more details of Sue Iremonger's arguments on
Hutchinson. But...
She was the first hand-writing examiner for whom I ever had any respect. It
sounds, alas, like swank, but I have to start by noting that prior to my
bringing my paleographically trained eye to the Dear Boss letter, all the
handwriting experts (and non-expert historians) who had examined at it had
read it as starting "Sir". It was apparent to me that it read "Sor" (and
this, combined with the "Mishter" revealed a crude Victorian imitation of
uneducated Irish). Sue did as I did - compared the construction of each
doubtful letter with other definite ones (whose identity was proved by their
appearance in clearly correctly written words) - and confirmed at once that
this said "Sor". Every single thing she said about the Maybrick diary
appeared to me sensible and properly verified by observation and comparison
that she could demonstrate. Every reservation she made about handwriting she hadn't (e.g.) been able to submit to magnification, seemed valid. The
contrast with the "experts" who had blundered around the territory before
her, often making absurd claims, was striking.
I was further impressed that "Bones" Thomas, the Serious Crimes Squad
detective sergeant assigned by Scotland Yard to investigate the Sunday
Times' claim that Robert Smith had attempted to defraud them by the sale of
diary rights, was equally sceptical about the claims of the handwriting
examiners he'd encountered, and equally impressed that Sue was that real
rarity - one he completely trusted.
Subsequently I was also impressed by Maureen Casey Owens, whom Rendell
used, and someone - who, I now forget - who discussed the extreme difficulty
of altering the ratio between upper and lower case letters and the
comparative heights and depths of loops and hooks when disguising writing. I
found this to be effective when looking at the disguised hands used by
Madeleine Smith, which would have completely deceived me.
(Need I add that the Israeli woman Feldy dragged in was a complete nut
case - a graphologist who purported to read character from handwriting
through noting such absurdities as the E in Elvis's signature looking...
Like a Guitar!!! She even admitted to being unable to make comparisons to
establish that one hand was identical with another. If it was true that she
had appeared as a consultant in Israeli court cases, and never lost a case,
it speaks ill for Israeli justice and intelligence!).


The later quote was also posted to a very very old and very very long Hutchinson thread (Hutch in the 1911 Census) where if you wade through, you'll find Iremonger discussed and this comes up about 100 pages or so in.

Edit- Martin said "Dear Boss" but he obviously meant "From Hell".

JM

Last edited by jmenges : 03-07-2015 at 11:53 AM.
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Old 03-07-2015, 02:06 PM
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SirJohnFalstaff SirJohnFalstaff is offline
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thanks a lot for that.
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