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Most Recent Posts:
Motive, Method and Madness: Same motive = same killer - by Fisherman 12 minutes ago.
Motive, Method and Madness: Same motive = same killer - by Pcdunn 1 hours ago.
General Suspect Discussion: Was Jack caught by London underworld? - by j.r-ahde 2 hours ago.
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Motive, Method and Madness: Same motive = same killer - (81 posts)
Maybrick, James: 25 YEARS OF THE DIARY OF JACK THE RIPPER: THE TRUE FACTS by Robert Smith - (20 posts)
Martha Tabram: Probibility of Martha Tabram Being a JtR Victim - (12 posts)
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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Motive, Method and Madness

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  #21  
Old 10-01-2016, 07:53 PM
Pcdunn Pcdunn is offline
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Originally Posted by paul g View Post
I have always thought that maybe jack took the victims more than once and possibly took them to the murder sites to gain there trust on previous occasions . Just a opinion with little or no relavance
Interesting. I think it would make more sense Jack had picked his victims ahead of time and knew he wanted these particular women. But that leads us into the realm of conspriacy theories, so perhaps we could say he had patronized other women in the areas, had learned of the murder sites, then used this knowledge when chance allowed him access to each victim.
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  #22  
Old 10-01-2016, 08:00 PM
harry harry is offline
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Quite so Paul.Which might suggest each victim knew her killer.He was not a stranger to her.It was not a random selection.
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  #23  
Old 10-01-2016, 08:19 PM
Pcdunn Pcdunn is offline
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Quite so Paul.Which might suggest each victim knew her killer.He was not a stranger to her.It was not a random selection.
Not chance? Why do you think Jack had preselected them? Or do you agree with DJA in his suspect?
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  #24  
Old 10-01-2016, 09:22 PM
paul g paul g is offline
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I am not trying to say that there was a reason for choosing the unfortunate victims. , I am not qualified to offer that . However trying to think like Jack and what would be better than to gain the trust of a street worker during the height of the ripper scare than take the lady to the intended murder site on more than one occasion, becoming a regular and gaining trust.
Advantages for Jack is he gets to no the layout the police beat timings etc etc and when the time is right commit his crime .

I realize times have changed but I cant think that during the scare even street girls no matter how desperate they were would not go willingly with a stranger to a site they had not been to before.
Also the police would have advised known street workers to stick to regular clients and regular clients only.
It is conceviable that maybe the first time jack used the girls services they took him to the seclude sites and later on another visit thats when he struck.
As for Jack selecting the victims for some sort of conspiracy theory That is beyond my thinking .
Depending on who you think is the first victim a case could be made that each murder is commited in a secure/safer site than the previous .
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  #25  
Old 10-01-2016, 11:50 PM
John G John G is offline
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Originally Posted by Wickerman View Post
Look at it this way, the man was the customer ....so he is led to her place of business by the proprietor.
Some prostitutes were members of gangs, they would lead the client down a back alley for him to be mugged by a couple of ruffians lying in wait.

Even in those days prostitutes had a 'patch' where they could sell their wares without infringing on the 'patch' of another prostitute, so the client can't just take the woman wherever he chooses, she would likely resist, they may end up on another 'patch' and the woman could get severely beaten for 'trespassing', so to speak.

For a variety of reasons, the prostitute is the one who takes charge.
The difficulty with this argument is that it hasn't been established that all of the victim's were prostitutes. And even if they were, say, casual prostitutes, it doesn't mean they were soliciting on the night they were murdered.
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  #26  
Old 10-02-2016, 02:09 PM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
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Originally Posted by John G View Post
The difficulty with this argument is that it hasn't been established that all of the victim's were prostitutes. And even if they were, say, casual prostitutes, it doesn't mean they were soliciting on the night they were murdered.
I commend you for the common sense perspective above.

I suggest that an "opportunity" killer might have had more than just an Unfortunate as his target. He might have wanted all the odds in his favor...maybe preferring ones that were weakened by sickness or ones that were inebriated. Interesting that the first 2 Canonical victims were killed within 10 days, they were killed almost identically, and they met the criteria above in that they were compromised in some fashion by either illness or booze. Also interesting is that they are the ONLY 2 women in the Canonical Group that can be fairly stated as "working the streets' on the nights they were killed. They admitted so to other witnesses.
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  #27  
Old 10-02-2016, 06:25 PM
harry harry is offline
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PcDunn,
Not preselected,just that the killer,by chance,met a victim already known to him. On 5 occasions? Yes.Coincidence? Yes,if the killer socialised that neighbourhood.
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  #28  
Old 10-02-2016, 06:44 PM
Pcdunn Pcdunn is offline
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PcDunn,
Not preselected,just that the killer,by chance,met a victim already known to him. On 5 occasions? Yes.Coincidence? Yes,if the killer socialised that neighbourhood.
Thank you, I think I understand...
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  #29  
Old 10-02-2016, 07:10 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John G View Post
The difficulty with this argument is that it hasn't been established that all of the victim's were prostitutes. And even if they were, say, casual prostitutes, it doesn't mean they were soliciting on the night they were murdered.
Technically, yes.
Though if any of them were not prostitutes, or not prostituting themselves on those nights, then he is not a client, and she is not available, so he isn't leading them nor they him, anywhere.
Which in turn suggests they were killed where he met them. So, how to explain the Chapman & Kelly murders?
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  #30  
Old 10-03-2016, 12:51 AM
richardnunweek richardnunweek is offline
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Hi,
In my opinion, these murders were committed by someone who had witnessed women soliciting, and this fuelled his rage,
In the case of Tabram, it is not disputed that she was out on the game that night she met her end.
Nicholls was also..''Look what a jolly bonnet I have'' i will soon have my doss.
Annie Chapman, also was on the lookout for money, after telling the lodging house attendant, ''Keep my bed for me''.
Stride was openly plying her trade , and Eddowes was seen talking to a man dressed as a sailor.
We know Mary Kelly was on the pick up, she remarked to Mrs Prater.''I wonder what tonight will bring?'' also seen with Blotchy, and Mr A [ if Hutchinson is believed,?].
I would suggest that Martha Tabram, was killed as she was resting on the first floor landing after her soldier had finished his business, and was accosted by her killer there,.
Nicholl's was soliciting in Whitechapel high street, and was initially accosted in Brady street, before killed where she was found
Annie Chapman entered the back yard of 29 Hanbury street with a client, and the killer entered the passage , after the client had left , finding the weak Chapman in the yard. she only had the chance too utter ''No'' before meeting her end.
Stride was clearly doing the rounds in Berner street, and was killed either the Broad shouldered man, or the man rushing to her .
Eddowes was I believe unfortunate, as she was not an intended victim, but was seen standing with a man, apparently soliciting, when the killer was intending to make his way home through Mitre square.
Mary Kelly had been seen by the killer entering the court , with a man[ most likely Mr A] and as the man did not exit, caught up with her in the morning posing as a man open for business.
I believe the killer resided in a Dorset street lodging house.
Regards Richard.
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