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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Motive, Method and Madness

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  #1  
Old 09-06-2016, 10:07 AM
YomRippur YomRippur is offline
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Default Could the Ripper have led his victims to murder sites?

It is commonly believed that the victims themselves led the killer to the spots where they were killed. But could the reverse have happened? This may be all speculative, naturally. If the killer knew the East End surroundings well, he might have opted to bring prostitutes to his spot instead of potentially following someone to unfamiliar places. The killer might have lacked thorough planning, but anyone should realize that you lower the chance of getting caught if you stick to familiar surroundings. When the killer asked Annie Chapman, "Will you?", he might be asking her to follow him. When he was seen with Catherine Eddowes, he might be thinking of taking her to a place where the policeman had just passed by and wouldn't return for several minutes. The murder of Elizabeth Stride, especially the eyewitness account of someone (possibly the killer) pushing Stride into the yard, also makes it seem possible that it was the killer who took her to a spot of his choosing instead of the reverse. He might have preferred to do his deeds in the homes of all his victims, except, of course, that some lived in doss houses.

Last edited by YomRippur : 09-06-2016 at 10:13 AM.
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Old 09-06-2016, 10:11 AM
Damaso Marte Damaso Marte is offline
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Maybe. Or maybe he just lay in wait and ambushed his victims. We don't really have any evidence to determine who led whom to the murder site.

I suppose if we believe that Lawende sighting to be the Ripper and Eddowes, that may rule out the ambush theory, but unfortunately Lawende didn't overhear enough of the conversation to determine who was leading whom.
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Old 09-06-2016, 10:18 AM
YomRippur YomRippur is offline
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What was the custom in those days? Did the prostitute usually pick the location or did the client have some say? During the Ripper scare, prostitutes might be wary of following strangers to unfamiliar places. So I'm inclined to believe the common belief, that the prostitute usually picked the location.
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Old 09-06-2016, 11:54 AM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YomRippur View Post
What was the custom in those days? Did the prostitute usually pick the location or did the client have some say? During the Ripper scare, prostitutes might be wary of following strangers to unfamiliar places. So I'm inclined to believe the common belief, that the prostitute usually picked the location.
Look at it this way, the man was the customer ....so he is led to her place of business by the proprietor.
Some prostitutes were members of gangs, they would lead the client down a back alley for him to be mugged by a couple of ruffians lying in wait.

Even in those days prostitutes had a 'patch' where they could sell their wares without infringing on the 'patch' of another prostitute, so the client can't just take the woman wherever he chooses, she would likely resist, they may end up on another 'patch' and the woman could get severely beaten for 'trespassing', so to speak.

For a variety of reasons, the prostitute is the one who takes charge.
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Old 09-06-2016, 12:26 PM
Pierre Pierre is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YomRippur View Post
It is commonly believed that the victims themselves led the killer to the spots where they were killed. But could the reverse have happened? This may be all speculative, naturally. If the killer knew the East End surroundings well, he might have opted to bring prostitutes to his spot instead of potentially following someone to unfamiliar places. The killer might have lacked thorough planning, but anyone should realize that you lower the chance of getting caught if you stick to familiar surroundings. When the killer asked Annie Chapman, "Will you?", he might be asking her to follow him. When he was seen with Catherine Eddowes, he might be thinking of taking her to a place where the policeman had just passed by and wouldn't return for several minutes. The murder of Elizabeth Stride, especially the eyewitness account of someone (possibly the killer) pushing Stride into the yard, also makes it seem possible that it was the killer who took her to a spot of his choosing instead of the reverse. He might have preferred to do his deeds in the homes of all his victims, except, of course, that some lived in doss houses.
Hi,

If he had wanted to kill every woman indoors he could easily have used that method.

(The question was a could-have-question).

Regards, Pierre

Last edited by Pierre : 09-06-2016 at 12:33 PM.
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Old 09-06-2016, 12:32 PM
Pierre Pierre is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wickerman View Post
Look at it this way, the man was the customer ....so he is led to her place of business by the proprietor.
Some prostitutes were members of gangs, they would lead the client down a back alley for him to be mugged by a couple of ruffians lying in wait.

Even in those days prostitutes had a 'patch' where they could sell their wares without infringing on the 'patch' of another prostitute, so the client can't just take the woman wherever he chooses, she would likely resist, they may end up on another 'patch' and the woman could get severely beaten for 'trespassing', so to speak.

For a variety of reasons, the prostitute is the one who takes charge.
Hi,

And the killer could have been lying in wait for a customer to finish and go away and then attack.

(The question was a could-have-question).

Regards, Pierre
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Old 09-06-2016, 02:51 PM
GUT GUT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
Hi,

And the killer could have been lying in wait for a customer to finish and go away and then attack.

(The question was a could-have-question).

Regards, Pierre
OMG Pierre posted something I can agree with.
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  #8  
Old 09-06-2016, 02:54 PM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
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There are some stories, possibly apocryphal, of strange men luring women into dark alleys (notably Sarah Lewis/Mrs Kennedy).
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  #9  
Old 09-07-2016, 07:18 AM
Robert St Devil Robert St Devil is offline
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Hello Wickerman.

How do you read ,,polly nicholls,,? Was the middle of Buck,s Row her ,back alley,? Or, did they find Mr. Brown,s Stableyard,s gates closed, and he decided to murder her there...

Hello YomRipper.

It,s the perfection of his acts that has made me consider your same question in the past. Moreso, he is lucky enough to find 4 women who lead him to sites that he deems suitable. What we can never know is how many other times he may have tried and passed on the opportunity, or whether he had frequented these women before and knew where they would take him. I can,t say that his random actions are out of character, but it is worth considering an alternative.
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Old 09-07-2016, 08:04 AM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
There are some stories, possibly apocryphal, of strange men luring women into dark alleys (notably Sarah Lewis/Mrs Kennedy).
Yes, this is the "Britannia-man", a character who's bold actions should have made him a prime suspect. Macdonald did show particular interest in him via his questions to Sarah Lewis.
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