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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Police Officials and Procedures > General Police Discussion

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  #31  
Old 05-19-2017, 11:51 AM
DJA DJA is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elamarna View Post
Having reread the various reports Thain gave at the inquest, he clearly says he passed Bucks Row every 30 mins.
The only ways that this can be so, given the distances of his full beat are:

1.He walked at a much faster pace than the standard 3mph. He would need to go at over 4mph.

2. Not every one of the internal roads was walked on every circuit of the beat. For instance on circuit one he may have checked Bath and Fosters and the surrounding roads; but not those in the northern section. While on circuit 2 that was reversed.

I wonder if anyone would care to comment on which they feel is the most likely ? Or do we think that Thain was not accurate with how long the route took him.




Steve
Reckon you nailed it with "2".

Main perimeter is roughly 2000m or 1 and a 1/4 miles. Add the odd street or three and you have variable 30 minute beats.

Neil's beat is a different kettle of fish. Lots of difficult spots,as mentioned to GUT in post #20.
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  #32  
Old 05-19-2017, 12:14 PM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Wood View Post
Hi All,

Given their two beats, it's nothing short of serendipity that PC Thain should appear at the Brady Street end of Bucks Row at the exact moment PC Neil was flashing his bullseye lantern for assistance.

Regards,

Simon
Simon

Are you suggesting that it was not luck at all?

I ask because am aware that you have suggested before that the police officers did not give a shall we say fully accurate account at the inquest.

If you are still of that opinion can I ask what sources/evidence you use to support this idea or is it just a feeling you have?

I am trying to cover all aspects of Bucks Row, so all alternative views are of great interest to me.

All the best


Steve
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  #33  
Old 05-19-2017, 12:15 PM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
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Originally Posted by DJA View Post
Reckon you nailed it with "2".

Main perimeter is roughly 2000m or 1 and a 1/4 miles. Add the odd street or three and you have variable 30 minute beats.

Neil's beat is a different kettle of fish. Lots of difficult spots,as mentioned to GUT in post #20.
Thanks Dave.


Steve
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  #34  
Old 05-19-2017, 12:36 PM
DJA DJA is offline
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Originally Posted by Elamarna View Post
Simon

Are you suggesting that it was not luck at all?

I ask because am aware that you have suggested before that the police officers did not give a shall we say fully accurate account at the inquest.

If you are still of that opinion can I ask what sources/evidence you use to support this idea or is it just a feeling you have?

I am trying to cover all aspects of Bucks Row, so all alternative views are of great interest to me.

All the best


Steve
Constable John Neil's inquest testimony is interesting. He was never far from "the spot".
There were three police thereabouts. Not one of them saw anything.
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  #35  
Old 05-19-2017, 12:53 PM
Monty Monty is offline
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Thanks Monty

So a 37 minute beat would not be impossible given ALL the internal roads?

Steve
Yeah Steve.

And if that beat had warehouses, shops, pubs etc, places that required close and specific monitoring, then the beat could take longer.

What we shall never know is if these Bobbies were given special instructions during muster, such as check the gates of Browne & Eagle warehouses, hang around outside the Roebuck pub during closing as there was trouble there last night. That sorta thing.

Of course, this doesn't directly impact on Beat times, but could answer why Bobbies weren't where we expected them to be when were do our calculations today.

Monty
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  #36  
Old 05-19-2017, 01:00 PM
Monty Monty is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elamarna View Post
Having reread the various reports Thain gave at the inquest, he clearly says he passed Bucks Row every 30 mins.
The only ways that this can be so, given the distances of his full beat are:

1.He walked at a much faster pace than the standard 3mph. He would need to go at over 4mph.

2. Not every one of the internal roads was walked on every circuit of the beat. For instance on circuit one he may have checked Bath and Fosters and the surrounding roads; but not those in the northern section. While on circuit 2 that was reversed.

I wonder if anyone would care to comment on which they feel is the most likely ? Or do we think that Thain was not accurate with how long the route took him.




Steve
It was not unusual for a Bobby to make slight alterations to his Beat, commonly to make up lost time. Or, as seemingly with Watkins, just to throw those who may be timing the beats in order to plan a burglary.

Monty
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  #37  
Old 05-19-2017, 01:01 PM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
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Originally Posted by Monty View Post
Yeah Steve.

And if that beat had warehouses, shops, pubs etc, places that required close and specific monitoring, then the beat could take longer.

What we shall never know is if these Bobbies were given special instructions during muster, such as check the gates of Browne & Eagle warehouses, hang around outside the Roebuck pub during closing as there was trouble there last night. That sorta thing.

Of course, this doesn't directly impact on Beat times, but could answer why Bobbies weren't where we expected them to be when were do our calculations today.

Monty

Thanks Monty

What about the suggestions in post 27, any thoughts?

Again many thanks for the help


Steve
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  #38  
Old 05-19-2017, 01:03 PM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
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It was not unusual for a Bobby to make slight alterations to his Beat, commonly to make up lost time. Or, as seemingly with Watkins, just to throw those who may be timing the beats in order to plan a burglary.

Monty
Sorry post crossed
Many thanks

Steve
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  #39  
Old 05-19-2017, 01:07 PM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
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Originally Posted by DJA View Post
Constable John Neil's inquest testimony is interesting. He was never far from "the spot".
There were three police thereabouts. Not one of them saw anything

Dave,

, his was a tight route which never went too far away. From the murder site. The furthest being junction of Bakers Row and Thomas Street. Less than 800 yards.

Steve
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  #40  
Old 05-19-2017, 01:14 PM
Monty Monty is offline
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A beat map from the 1930s, for H Division, which gives an idea of Beat routes.

Monty
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