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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > Mary Jane Kelly

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  #21  
Old 01-10-2017, 02:48 PM
MysterySinger MysterySinger is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Debra A View Post
Do you have your research on Julia V written down anywhere? I noticed a girl in the workhouse records recently who I thought was Julia's daughter and she was in trouble with the police but I didn't get chance to research it further. Do you have any information about that too? Cheers.
I just hold records on Ancestry. However, I do have a Lunacy Patient Admission Register record for a Rosina Ventorini being admitted to Bexley (?) on 7th November 1900 and discharged on 21st October 1903 (when she died).

The London Westminster Union Workhouse Discharge Records for 25th June 1881 show Charlotte Ventreney discharged "to Police". Does that tally?
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  #22  
Old 01-10-2017, 03:10 PM
Debra A Debra A is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysterySinger View Post
I just hold records on Ancestry. However, I do have a Lunacy Patient Admission Register record for a Rosina Ventorini being admitted to Bexley (?) on 7th November 1900 and discharged on 21st October 1903 (when she died).

The London Westminster Union Workhouse Discharge Records for 25th June 1881 show Charlotte Ventreney discharged "to Police". Does that tally?
That's the one I wondered about, the 'to police' entry. Is that Julia's daughter do you think? I didn't have time to check it out but did wonder and intended to check put newspaper reports to see if I could see anything else but I didn't manage to get around to it yet. I was just curious about what she had done.
You should consider writing your Venturney research up. It would be a useful and welcome addition to our knowledge of these women and their lives.
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  #23  
Old 01-10-2017, 03:41 PM
MysterySinger MysterySinger is offline
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Debra I think it highly likely that Charlotte is Julia's daughter and her young age may be the only reason she was passed to the Police (13). I'm unsure exactly what happened to her father - but it's possible he died in 1871 (or maybe went to Italy). In the 1871 census, Julia was living at the same address as her father along with her 2 daughters.

The question is what was Julia thinking if Charlotte is having to fend for herself by 1881 (if indeed that is the case)?

Strange thing is, I know Ashton Under Lyne and Mossley etc far better than I know Whitechapel lol.
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  #24  
Old 01-10-2017, 03:59 PM
Debra A Debra A is offline
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Debra I think it highly likely that Charlotte is Julia's daughter and her young age may be the only reason she was passed to the Police (13). I'm unsure exactly what happened to her father - but it's possible he died in 1871 (or maybe went to Italy). In the 1871 census, Julia was living at the same address as her father along with her 2 daughters.

The question is what was Julia thinking if Charlotte is having to fend for herself by 1881 (if indeed that is the case)?

Strange thing is, I know Ashton Under Lyne and Mossley etc far better than I know Whitechapel lol.

Thanks MS. Yes, you are probably right and she had been abandoned and so passed to police. I didn't think of that. Interesting stuff.

It's a small world! At the time I was researching this I used to go to Uppermill in Saddleworth regularly, not realising at the time that Mossley was only a couple of miles further down the road!
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  #25  
Old 01-10-2017, 04:15 PM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
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In this thread Paddy has a little info on Julia/Lottie and daughters, posts #10 & 11

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=2478&page=2

Out of interest, I believe the legal age of consent in 1881 was 13 (raised to 16 in 1885) so maybe young Charlotte was making her own decisions. Possibly working already in service?
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  #26  
Old 01-10-2017, 04:17 PM
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Uppermill is a very nice place and Mossley is along the main road from there.
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  #27  
Old 01-10-2017, 04:36 PM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
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Originally Posted by Debra A View Post
There were several newspapers that reported McCarthy said MJK was 25 but looked 30. I don't have one to hand at present.
The Syracuse Herald 11 Nov carries (along with one or two others) an interview with "Mary Jane's pal" Mary, in which she says something similar;

http://www.casebook.org/press_report.../18881111.html

"Though quarrelsome, Mary Jane was pretty before she was cut up, Mary said, and she was only twenty four, not thirty, as she looked; but she would fight, and did not care what sort of a place she lived in."
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  #28  
Old 01-11-2017, 12:01 PM
Debra A Debra A is offline
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Quote:
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Uppermill is a very nice place and Mossley is along the main road from there.
Thanks MS. I might pop there next time I visit.
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  #29  
Old 01-11-2017, 12:05 PM
Debra A Debra A is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
The Syracuse Herald 11 Nov carries (along with one or two others) an interview with "Mary Jane's pal" Mary, in which she says something similar;

http://www.casebook.org/press_report.../18881111.html

"Though quarrelsome, Mary Jane was pretty before she was cut up, Mary said, and she was only twenty four, not thirty, as she looked; but she would fight, and did not care what sort of a place she lived in."
Thanks Joshua. I think there's a version that has McCarthy saying something similar about her age in an interview too. I don't remember seeing the additional details in that version before so thanks for that.
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  #30  
Old 01-11-2017, 02:33 PM
DJA DJA is offline
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Perhaps our Mary Kelly was in fact a 29 year old Mary Ann Kelly who was baptized at Shoreditch Church,better known as St. Leonard's.
A visit to France with a wealthy gentleman,might have included a visit to Le Chabanais. This luxury brothel was run by Irish born Alexandrine Joanett AKA Madame Kelly.
Perhaps that was where Mary acquired a new middle name.
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Last edited by DJA : 01-11-2017 at 02:33 PM. Reason: Spelling
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