Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Main
   

Introduction
Victims
Suspects
Witnesses
Ripper Letters
Police Officials
Official Documents
Press Reports
Victorian London
Message Boards
Ripper Media
Authors
Dissertations
Timelines
Games & Diversions
Photo Archive
Ripper Wiki
Casebook Examiner
Ripper Podcast
About the Casebook

Most Recent Posts:
Mary Jane Kelly: Mary Kellys Inquest - by John Savage 21 minutes ago.
General Discussion: Mug Shots from 1908-1911 - by Simon Wood 31 minutes ago.
General Suspect Discussion: Favorite suspect/s? - by Herlock Sholmes 51 minutes ago.
General Discussion: Mug Shots from 1908-1911 - by richardh 58 minutes ago.
General Suspect Discussion: Favorite suspect/s? - by Elamarna 2 hours ago.
Witnesses: Caroline Maxwell Alibi ? - by Darryl Kenyon 2 hours ago.

Most Popular Threads:
Witnesses: Caroline Maxwell Alibi ? - (25 posts)
Mary Jane Kelly: Mary Kellys Inquest - (5 posts)
General Suspect Discussion: Favorite suspect/s? - (5 posts)
Rippercast: Colin Wilson: Jack the Ripper Conference in Ipswich, 1996 - (3 posts)
General Suspect Discussion: What EAR/ONS teaches us about JtR - (2 posts)
General Discussion: Mug Shots from 1908-1911 - (2 posts)

Wiki Updates:
Robert Sagar
Edit: Chris
May 9, 2015, 12:32 am
Online newspaper archives
Edit: Chris
Nov 26, 2014, 10:25 am
Joseph Lawende
Edit: Chris
Mar 9, 2014, 10:12 am
Miscellaneous research resources
Edit: Chris
Feb 13, 2014, 9:28 am
Charles Cross
Edit: John Bennett
Sep 4, 2013, 8:20 pm

Most Recent Blogs:
Mike Covell: A DECADE IN THE MAKING.
February 19, 2016, 11:12 am.
Chris George: RipperCon in Baltimore, April 8-10, 2016
February 10, 2016, 2:55 pm.
Mike Covell: Hull Prison Visit
October 10, 2015, 8:04 am.
Mike Covell: NEW ADVENTURES IN RESEARCH
August 9, 2015, 3:10 am.
Mike Covell: UPDDATES FOR THE PAST 11 MONTHS
November 14, 2014, 10:02 am.
Mike Covell: Mike’s Book Releases
March 17, 2014, 3:18 am.

Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > Non-Canonical Victims > Emma Smith

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-15-2016, 05:19 AM
MsWeatherwax MsWeatherwax is offline
Detective
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 204
Default Just Throwing This Out There...

I know I've heard a few people in the past suggest that Emma Smith was murdered by a gang trying to extort 'protection' money from local prostitutes...it's just popped into my head that the succession of murders which followed could also have been committed by a gang, in order to terrify the local unfortunates and make them more likely to sign up for their 'services'.

I don't mean that each individual woman was murdered with the entire gang present...just that one, or maybe two, members of the gang were responsible for selecting and attacking women. Perhaps this was at random, or perhaps for refusing protection in the past.

Anyway, just a thought.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-15-2016, 06:32 AM
Rosella Rosella is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,542
Default

Maybe Jack had been a gang member when he was younger. I don't know. But it's a huge leap between what happened to Emma and what occurred with Jack's victims.
Although the attack on Emma Smith was extremely nasty and disgusting and horrible it doesn't appear that murder was the intention there. It seems they wanted to rob her, beat her up and treat her cruelly and with disdain. However, I don't believe their intention was to murder her. That doesn't mean they were being merciful, (they probably couldn't have cared less if she lived or died) but they stopped short of murder and they didn't use a knife or knives in the attack. That's very different to the way Jack worked.

Surely if it was a gang they could have terrified local prostitutes without going to the extent Jack did. Beating up and threatening a few local unfortunates wouldn't take you to the gallows. The Ripper murders would.

Last edited by Rosella : 04-15-2016 at 06:35 AM.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-15-2016, 06:41 AM
MsWeatherwax MsWeatherwax is offline
Detective
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 204
Default

Very true. It just crossed my mind that the outraged headlines following her death might have prompted a few of the local unfortunates to come forward and actually volunteer for protection. From there, a couple of people could quite easily decide that prostitutes are expendable for profit, and that there is quicker and easier ways to kill them.

I don't really know why I'm arguing the point...I'm pretty certain that he was a sexually motivated serial killer. Just trying to stimulate discussion I suppose.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-15-2016, 07:31 AM
Rosella Rosella is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,542
Default

I'm sure that some of the Whitechapel women did get themselves a 'bully' or pimp for the duration. Better the devil that you know...!
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-15-2016, 07:41 AM
Pcdunn Pcdunn is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 1,638
Default

I think we'd need more historical and sociological research into Victorian prostitution of that time and place, and consider how did the "casual" Unfortunates differ from the more organized prostitutes who might have had a pimp or madam.

Kelly, if she was an independent prostitue with her own room, might have fit the bill as being killed as a warning to other "uppity" streetwalkers by a protection gang.
Hmm... Thoughts?
__________________
Pat D.
---------------
Von Konigswald: Jack the Ripper plays shuffleboard. -- Happy Birthday, Wanda June by Kurt Vonnegut, c.1970.
---------------
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-15-2016, 08:03 AM
MsWeatherwax MsWeatherwax is offline
Detective
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 204
Default

I do sometimes wonder if Kelly wasn't a 'copy cat' killing. The mutilations to her were so horrific, it has occurred to me that they were the kind of thing that someone might do if they had heard exaggerated stories about what had happened to the other women, and then wanted to make it look like the Whitechapel Murderer killed her.

It would take an extremely cold heart and brutal individual to do that to someone just to cover their tracks or scare other prostitutes, though. Having said that, I've known latter day pimps in America, the UK and Europe to do truly appalling and awful things to the women they control, so perhaps the brutality isn't completely out of the question.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-15-2016, 08:31 AM
Jon Guy Jon Guy is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Blighty
Posts: 2,734
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MsWeatherwax View Post
I do sometimes wonder if Kelly wasn't a 'copy cat' killing. The mutilations to her were so horrific, it has occurred to me that they were the kind of thing that someone might do if they had heard exaggerated stories about what had happened to the other women, and then wanted to make it look like the Whitechapel Murderer killed her.

It would take an extremely cold heart and brutal individual to do that to someone just to cover their tracks or scare other prostitutes, though. Having said that, I've known latter day pimps in America, the UK and Europe to do truly appalling and awful things to the women they control, so perhaps the brutality isn't completely out of the question.
If Kelly was a "copy cat" killing, whomever killed her had certainly been reading the inquest reports in the papers, as Kelly`s murder almost mirrors the Chapman murder. In fact, the copy cat seems to have been aware of smaller details that have eluded today`s Ripperologists, who`ve had decades to peruse the gory details. Our copycat only had a couple of months.

If someone had it in for Mary Kelly they could have just bopped her on the head and chucked her in the Thames. Pretending to be Jack the Ripper and mutilating her in her own room would be a foolish thing to do, by drawing worldwide attention to her.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-15-2016, 08:38 AM
jerryd jerryd is offline
Inspector
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,093
Default

Several months back I posted a news clip of an assault that took place in Bishopsgate Railway Station. The two young men arrested were, Joseph Isaacs and John Adler. They entered the ladies waiting room with six other men and created a disturbance in which they were removed. They then assaulted a couple porters and were arrested.

This Joseph Isaacs, I believe, is the same Joseph Isaacs that has been speculated as being A-Man. It's also interesting that John Adler is reported as living in Hanbury Street. This assault was reported in the news on April 9th, 1888, which is only a few days after the attack on Emma Smith.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-15-2016, 11:09 PM
Premium Member
wigngown wigngown is offline
Detective
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: UK 🇬🇧
Posts: 145
Default

Jon Guy,

You've summed up why I think Kelly was indeed one of JtR's victims.

Best regards.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-15-2016, 11:18 PM
John G John G is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,289
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Guy View Post
If Kelly was a "copy cat" killing, whomever killed her had certainly been reading the inquest reports in the papers, as Kelly`s murder almost mirrors the Chapman murder. In fact, the copy cat seems to have been aware of smaller details that have eluded today`s Ripperologists, who`ve had decades to peruse the gory details. Our copycat only had a couple of months.

If someone had it in for Mary Kelly they could have just bopped her on the head and chucked her in the Thames. Pretending to be Jack the Ripper and mutilating her in her own room would be a foolish thing to do, by drawing worldwide attention to her.
Hi Jon

Has there ever been a copycat serial killer? Apart from in works of fiction of course.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.