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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Motive, Method and Madness

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  #2221  
Old 12-08-2017, 08:45 PM
RockySullivan RockySullivan is offline
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Hull daily mail 3 oct 88: (above post shld be 88 also) about whitehall: "there are indications that the hoarding surrounding the works has recently been scaled"
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  #2222  
Old 12-08-2017, 08:53 PM
RockySullivan RockySullivan is offline
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London evening standard 10/3 pieces of black material from skirt have been collected from other parts of the premises
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  #2223  
Old 12-08-2017, 10:23 PM
jerryd jerryd is offline
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Originally Posted by RockySullivan View Post
Hull daily mail 3 oct 88: (above post shld be 88 also) about whitehall: "there are indications that the hoarding surrounding the works has recently been scaled"
Hi Rocky,

There are other reports that say there was no indication of climbing the hoarding. Not sure how they would really know either way unless part of it broke away or clothing remains were caught on parts of the wood when they/he climbed over.

The part that really interests right now is how the police missed the leg in their initial search. Immediately after the discovery of the torso they began searching the debris piles for more remains and found nothing.

Echo
London, U.K.
3 October 1888


Upon inquiring of the workmen employed on the buildings an Echo reporter was this morning informed that in the course of the morning the police would make a thorough search of the enclosed ground. Their object is to ascertain whether any other portions of the mutilated body have been hidden away, either beneath the heaps of débris lying about on all sides, or in the long corridor-like vaults beneath the buildings. This must occupy some considerable time, but it is hinted that there is a possibility that some other portion of the body will be discovered.

THE SEARCH IN THE DEBRIS.

The police investigation in the débris has produced no result. At least, it had not up to one o'clock. At that hour their labours ceased for awhile. They were, however, resumed in a short time.

and two weeks later:

Daily Telegraph
October 18, 1888


Some time was spent amongst a lot of timber, where it was suggested the head could easily have been slipped between the logs, ultimately falling to the ground, and here the dog hesitated, sniffed, and scratched for awhile, but nothing connected with the remains was discovered, the timber not having been removed. At the suggestion of Mr. W. H. Angle, the dog was taken to the spot where the remains of the deceased woman was discovered, and by the aid of a candle-light the blood-stained bricks at the base of the wall where the remains was laid were clearly visible. In the opposite corner (less than a couple of yards off) the little terrier sniffed and retired, but, urged to 'find it,' the dog again went to a heap of earth, and began to scratch it away. Mr. Angle commenced to remove some of the earth with his foot, when Hedge, a labourer, brought a spade, and upon digging away some four or five inches of earth, after the removal of stones and portions of brick from the surface, a red fleshy substance was observed. At this moment the constable on duty at the works gave orders for the digging operation to be stopped until the arrival of his superior officers. Mr. Brown, the assistant-foreman, speedily summoned them to the scene. Sergeants Rose and Ferris arrived, and the former completed the task of unearthing the portion of a limb, which was ultimately found to be the left foot and part of the leg as far as the knee. Dr. Bond, of the Broad Sanctuary, Westminster, was soon in attendance, with Inspector Peters and a staff of constables, who took possession of the premises, not allowing any one to leave or to enter during the investigation.

The leg was only a few yards from where the body was discovered a few weeks prior and was buried in the dirt that was piled up and then covered with stones and brick (debris). Wouldn't it make sense for the police to begin their search in the pile of dirt closest to where the body was found? As dark as it was in the vault, and as difficult as it was to get to that particular vault, why did the killer go to all this trouble rather than either throw the leg into the Thames or bury/drop it somewhere else? Why not bury the arm in the same pile of dirt?

Last edited by jerryd : 12-08-2017 at 10:37 PM.
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  #2224  
Old 12-08-2017, 10:41 PM
RockySullivan RockySullivan is offline
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jerry I believe the reason is disposing of the parts in different areas make it harder to put all the pieces together, harder to identify, confuse the authorities essentialy. The arm found at lambeth road, did this end up belonging to the whitehall torso?
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  #2225  
Old 12-08-2017, 10:44 PM
jerryd jerryd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockySullivan View Post
jerry I believe the reason is disposing of the parts in different areas make it harder to put all the pieces together, harder to identify, confuse the authorities essentialy. The arm found at lambeth road, did this end up belonging to the whitehall torso?
I guess that could be. The other leg, the thighs and head were never found.

It was decided the Lambeth arm was not part of the Whitehall victim.
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  #2226  
Old 12-08-2017, 10:48 PM
RockySullivan RockySullivan is offline
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I guess that could be. The other leg, the thighs and head were never found.

It was decided the Lambeth arm was not part of the Whitehall victim.
I'm not sure I agree with them. They claim the Lambeth arm was buried somewhere then dug up. The flesh was decomposed one account states but the arm was wrapped up in canvas and bound with string or sash chord. The timing and the signature matching exactly there is no way it's not the torso killer. I think arm being buried at one point has to do with the leg and this is the whitehall arm. The doctor also said it was severed in the same way
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  #2227  
Old 12-08-2017, 10:55 PM
jerryd jerryd is offline
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Originally Posted by RockySullivan View Post
I'm not sure I agree with them. They claim the Lambeth arm was buried somewhere then dug up. The flesh was decomposed one account states but the arm was wrapped up in canvas and bound with string or sash chord. The timing and the signature matching exactly there is no way it's not the torso killer. I think arm being buried at one point has to do with the leg and this is the whitehall arm. The doctor also said it was severed in the same way
It has something going for it, as it was the opposite arm as the one found in the Thames. The police claimed it was down to the bone but a witness claims he saw the clenched fingers, hand and wrist plain as day. It appeared to have been covered in Lime, which, if it were Quick Lime it would enhance the decay process.

The other thing going for it is it was thrown over a railing similar to Liz Jackson's thigh.

Last edited by jerryd : 12-08-2017 at 10:58 PM.
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  #2228  
Old 12-08-2017, 11:01 PM
jerryd jerryd is offline
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The big thing against it, though, is it had attached to it the shoulder blade. The Whitehall torso apparently had both arms severed at the shoulder joint.

Last edited by jerryd : 12-08-2017 at 11:04 PM.
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  #2229  
Old 12-08-2017, 11:09 PM
RockySullivan RockySullivan is offline
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The big thing against it, though is it had attached to it the shoulder blade. The Whitehall torso apparently had both arms severed at the shoulder joint.
Hm that is weird. what is the deal with workman saying "george" found it?
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  #2230  
Old 12-08-2017, 11:13 PM
RockySullivan RockySullivan is offline
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jer do u have dundee courier oct 3 with all the "from central news agency stuff"?
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