Sorry....but how big was London in 1888?

[Merry_Olde_Mary]

If someone could tell me in practical terms, like in relation to Manhattan, I might be able to picture it.

I'm trying to get the sense of how immediately threatened your average Londoner felt by things happening in Whitechapel, which was on the outskirts (?)

I know the center of London was smaller, but not including the suburbs....could you, practically speaking, walk through all London on foot? Or did you really need a carriage or subway. Because articles talk about adventurous London men strolling into and around Whitechapel, then walking back....way this a huge foray or an easy walk? I can't picture it : (

[Roy Corduroy]

Good evening Mary,

Here is a map of greater London. Murder area circled in Blue.



The numbers are places related to Montague John Druitt

1 Body found at suicide
2 Barristers chambers
3 School where he taught
4 His mother an asylum patient here

And yes, he used the trains to get around. In fact there was a ticket found on his body.

[ChrisGeorge]

If someone could tell me in practical terms, like in relation to Manhattan, I might be able to picture it.

I'm trying to get the sense of how immediately threatened your average Londoner felt by things happening in Whitechapel, which was on the outskirts (?)

I know the center of London was smaller, but not including the suburbs....could you, practically speaking, walk through all London on foot? Or did you really need a carriage or subway. Because articles talk about adventurous London men strolling into and around Whitechapel, then walking back....way this a huge foray or an easy walk? I can't picture it : (

Hi there

You could easily walk round the murder area within an hour or two but as Roy has indicated, to get to other locations in metropolitan London of the day would require taking transportation such as the underground or the omnibus (horse-drawn tram). It would be possible to walk from the West End of London to the East End in several hours but more convenient to hop on one of those forms of transport.

All the best

Chris

[Merry_Olde_Mary]

Thankee, m'lords!

Very helpful indeed! I'm sure I shall crack this case by Monday, at the very latest...just leave it to ME : )

[Roy Corduroy]

the omnibus (horse-drawn tram)

Right you are, Chris



They tried mules for a time, but went back to horses.



Another one at Elephant & Castle

[Merry_Olde_Mary]

Awwww...poor horsies! (And No, I'm not 12 years old!) But doesn't that big one in the middle look a bit much to be dragging all over town? But then, I don't know much about horses...

Oh! Just noticed the top pic is of the same size bus, and it just gets 2 horsies!

[ChrisGeorge]

Excellent photographs, Roy. Thanks.

Chris

[Merry_Olde_Mary]

No one cares about the horsies ! ! !

DAMN YOUR EYES!

[ChrisGeorge]

I care about the horses and have in mind an article to be co-written with Suzi Hanney about horses and cruelty to horses. It should appear in Ripperologist in some forthcoming issue.

All the best

Chris

[Merry_Olde_Mary]

I care about the horses and have in mind an article to be co-written with Suzi Hanney about horses and cruelty to horses. It should appear in Ripperologist in some forthcoming issue.

Thanks : ) You know I was just teasing, though.

However, on this subject, doesn't that look like a rather LARGE omnibus (including passengers!) for just 2 horses to be dragging around all day?? Jeez. Especially in the heat and fumes of summer!

[Stephen Thomas]

I'm trying to get the sense of how immediately threatened your average Londoner felt by things happening in Whitechapel, which was on the outskirts (?)

I know the center of London was smaller, but not including the suburbs....could you, practically speaking, walk through all London on foot? Or did you really need a carriage or subway. Because articles talk about adventurous London men strolling into and around Whitechapel, then walking back....way this a huge foray or an easy walk? I can't picture it

Hi Mary

Even then London was huge. Let's say you go to a hot concert at the Apollo on W125th Street and you live in the East Village. Would you consider walking home? Your adventurous London men did not stroll into Whitechapel from Hampstead or Stockwell but got taken there by sharp 'carmen' who if given a tuppence tip would no doubt have said, Dick Van Dyke style, 'Gor blimey Guvnor, you're a real gent and no mistake'. And no, Whitechapel wasn't a suburb in 1888 though it may well have been 1500-2000 years ago. Given its proximity to the London docks it was one of the main hubs of the British Empire (way back then when we had one ).

[Merry_Olde_Mary]

Even then London was huge. Let's say you go to a hot concert at the Apollo on W125th Street and you live in the East Village. Would you consider walking home?

Thanks : )

It's all becoming clearer now.

I guess my original curiosity as to the size of 1888 London was about, "Why are all these middle and upper class people who live far from the area and are NOT the target types held in this supposed 'terror' about this killer?"

I can see how Whitechapel residents were freaked out...but was all London really "held in terror"? Or were they just fascinated?

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PS: Had I run into a Mary-Poppins-type cabbie, I'd have been forced to go into a big music hall number like "owd'ya Like-ta Spoon Wi'me?" SEE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIsmINWdkVQ
.

[Robert]

I would have thought that the Eddowes murder - the first in the City itself - would have rung one or two alarm bells in the more well-heeled places.

[ChrisGeorge]

Not London but you might be interested in this thread on the Liverpool Working Horse Monument about the horses and the carters that worked with them. Similar to the photographs of London omnibuses there's a period photograph of Liverpool's St. George's Hall with a number of horse-drawn trams visible.

Chris

[The Grave Maurice]

Lots going on in this thread. Love it. I tend to think that the residents of the West End experienced more of a frisson than a feeling of actual threat---although, there is that report about a female visitor who was so fearful that she couldn't walk to the end of the block to catch an omnibus and had to be sent home in a cab.

The talk about horses reminds me of something my grandfather said to me. He often mentioned the difference in time it took to walk in London between when he was young and when he next went back in the 1950s. "Damn cars!", he would say. When he was young, he could dodge among the horse-drawn vans and they barely slowed him down. Traffic and stoplights were, however, another matter. We should bear this in mind when thinking about travel times a hundred and twenty-odd years ago.