Zulu influences?

[The Good Michael]

D

As to the post of The Good Michael just goes to prove my beleif that if some people on here had brains they would be dangerous !!

Good. Then we are safe with you.

Cheers,

Mike

[Dorian Gray]

Dorian you are correct in your assumptions.

As to the post of The Good Michael just goes to prove my beleif that if some people on here had brains they would be dangerous !!

Trevor,

Thank you for the clarification.

Then, I will ask again: which wounds do you ascribe to the killer of Eddowes and Chapman?

Regards,

Dorian

[Cap'n Jack]

The nick on the ear I would guess.

[perrymason]

Imagine the world of criminology if the medical examiners were required to perform onsite autopsies for every murder that involved body cavities being opened.

This is one of those..."well, its within the realm of the possible, and cant be countered or refuted with direct statements, so it must be a valid premise"..kinda deals.

How about we get one single reference to this type of activity happening in that specific area at that time...raiding bodies for organs while in police custody....then we can talk again.

Best regards

[Dorian Gray]

Cap'n, Perry,

Did I step on Trevor's toes with my question, or as a newbie shouldn't I have asked the question?

That said, I'd truly like an answer Trevor, if you are willing to provide one.

Regards,

Dorian.

[Trevor Marriott]

I think it is fair to say that a modern day medical examiner called to a murder scene would soon be able to tell if organs had been removed or not.

So as far as 1888 was concerned there is nothing on record from any of the doctors who attended the Chapman and Eddowes crime scenes stating that there was any visible sign of organs having been removed. As far as Eddowes was concerned that would have amounted to major surgery so if the killer had removed those organs one would have expected that to have been noticed and documented. Therfore you cannot say for certain that the killer did remove the organs. Again i say it is a casee for each reseracher to assess and evaluate the facts appertaining to both theories and make their own judgment.

What we dont need is sarcastic comments from ill informed posters !! who do nothing more than show themselves up as t...s !!!!

Perhaps DG would care to expand on the question he wishes me to answer

[perrymason]

What we dont need is sarcastic comments from ill informed posters !! who do nothing more than show themselves up as t...s !!!!

Are you kidding me? From someone who proposes that the organs were not taken when the entire rest of the world believes they were,.. based on what.........a hunch?

Ill informed indeed. You have no foundation, no evidence and no basis for the argument in he first place.

Might I suggest using some actual evidence or some precendent to formulate your future bizarro world theories...so you dont come off sounding so "ill informed" yourself.

Cheers

[Dorian Gray]

I think it is fair to say that a modern day medical examiner called to a murder scene would soon be able to tell if organs had been removed or not.

So as far as 1888 was concerned there is nothing on record from any of the doctors who attended the Chapman and Eddowes crime scenes stating that there was any visible sign of organs having been removed. As far as Eddowes was concerned that would have amounted to major surgery so if the killer had removed those organs one would have expected that to have been noticed and documented. Therfore you cannot say for certain that the killer did remove the organs. Again i say it is a casee for each reseracher to assess and evaluate the facts appertaining to both theories and make their own judgment.

What we dont need is sarcastic comments from ill informed posters !! who do nothing more than show themselves up as t...s !!!!

Perhaps DG would care to expand on the question he wishes me to answer

Trevor,

My questions remain the same: which wounds do you ascribe to the murderer of Eddowes and Chapman? Where did the murderer stop?

Regards,

Dorian

[Trevor Marriott]

i am not a medical expert nor do i purport to be like some on here i would sugggest for further clarification you read the extended chapter on JTR contained in my book The Evil Within.

This chapter contains evidence from a number of modern day medical experts who have reviewed the original findings and also conducted controlled experiments relating to the removal of the organs theory and also tests relating to the seconday theory that the killer cut the apron piece and took the organs away in that apron piece. The results of these tests clearly casts a major doubt about the original longstanding theories surrounding both issues.

Furthermore anyone purchasing a copy of the book direct from my website will receive a powerpoint presentation showing these controlled tests carried out on cadavers under mortuary conditions. www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Fisherman]

"anyone purchasing a copy of the book direct from my website will receive a powerpoint presentation showing these controlled tests carried out on cadavers under mortuary conditions"

Now there´s an offer you don´t see every day!

Fisherman
not wanting to otherwise contribute to the ongoing discussion

[Dorian Gray]

i am not a medical expert nor do i purport to be like some on here i would sugggest for further clarification you read the extended chapter on JTR contained in my book The Evil Within.

This chapter contains evidence from a number of modern day medical experts who have reviewed the original findings and also conducted controlled experiments relating to the removal of the organs theory and also tests relating to the seconday theory that the killer cut the apron piece and took the organs away in that apron piece. The results of these tests clearly casts a major doubt about the original longstanding theories surrounding both issues.

Furthermore anyone purchasing a copy of the book direct from my website will receive a powerpoint presentation showing these controlled tests carried out on cadavers under mortuary conditions. www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Trevor,

My questions are straightforward and do not require the findings of a medical expert, but your opinion or theory, nothing else.

To this end, you must have determined, before the experiments you mention above were conducted, the point where the murderer of Eddowes and Chapman ceased his attack, or am I incorrect?

I have found most authors are willing and eager to discuss their theories and answer questions, and found your reply confusing, especially after your invitation in post #36 where you stated: "Perhaps DG would care to expand on the question he wishes me to answer."

If you do not wish to answer my questions directly, then please state that plainly.

Regards,

Dorian

[Trevor Marriott]

The answer to your question is quite simple he would have stopped when he had finished what he had started or beat a hasty retreat if he felt that he was likely to be discovered

[Dorian Gray]

The answer to your question is quite simple he would have stopped when he had finished what he had started or beat a hasty retreat if he felt that he was likely to be discovered

Trevor,

I have asked my questions with true interest and curiosity.

Perhaps, I should narrow the question, or restate my original question to avoid confusion:

Which wounds do you ascribe to the murderer of Eddowes and/or Chapman (one victim as an illustration of your theory will suffice)?

To be absolutely clear: according to your theory, what wounds did the murderer inflict on Eddowes and/or Chapman at the crime scene?

Regards,

Dorian

[perrymason]

Dorian,

Youre being unnecessarily fair. Organs were taken from Annie on the spot in Hanbury, and on the spot in Mitre, and on the spot in Room 13....surely even Trevor knows that intestines removed onsite and colons sectioned onsite were actions taken so as to access the organs the killer sought, and enable a rapid extraction of them.

Since the medical experts stated they believed that Polly Nichols and Annie Chapman were actually killed for the organs only successfully taken from Annie, you have a killers objective that nullifies Trevors speculation.

Would you rather believe the men who found the women and examined the women....or someone who thinks he would like to be something that rhymes with his first name.

Remember....even the Royal theory nonsense got published...so pick your "published authors" with care. I can recommend a few great ones that do visit here.

All the best Dorian

[Trevor Marriott]

At the risk of being repetetive there is no evidence to prove that the organs were removed at the scene of the Chapman and Eddowes killings. You have stated what you beleive happened as have many others over he past 120 years which is your entitlemnet to do so.

It is a fact that the bodies were mutilated at the scene however it is also a fact that those bodies were not examined at the scene so neither you nor I can say for sure if the organs had been removed or not.

So therfore we have to look at other ways of proving or disproving either theory. As far as the theory suggesting the killer took them all we have is the evidence that some 12 hours later when the post mortems were carried out the organs were found to be missing so everyone at the time and since then has taken the view that the killler removed them.

As to disproving this theory i would suggest you read the statements from the medical experts i assembled who conducted experiments in realtion to the difficulty in the use of a 6 inch knife to remove these very organs and the degree of difficulty in removing the said organs given the light available to the killer and the time needed.

Also look at the photos which accompany the statements. These all clearly help to cast a major doubt about the the theory that the killler took the organs.

It should also be noted that as far as the murder of Chapman is concerned the killer would not need to remove the intestines to remove the uterus !!!!!!!!!

I hope this now clears the matter up

As far as Kellys murder is concerned I would not wish to comment any further on this murder as it is likely to be the subject of further disclosure in the future

Before I go i would suggest Perry Mason get his facts correct no organs were removed from Polly Nichols