Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Main
   

Introduction
Victims
Suspects
Witnesses
Ripper Letters
Police Officials
Official Documents
Press Reports
Victorian London
Message Boards
Ripper Media
Authors
Dissertations
Timelines
Games & Diversions
Photo Archive
Ripper Wiki
Casebook Examiner
Ripper Podcast
About the Casebook

Most Recent Posts:
Witnesses: Why doubt a soldier murdered Tabram? - by Hunter 9 minutes ago.
Conferences and Meetings: American Jack the Ripper - True Crime Conference, Baltimore, April 7-8, 2018 - by ChrisGeorge 12 minutes ago.
Witnesses: Why doubt a soldier murdered Tabram? - by Sam Flynn 23 minutes ago.
Elizabeth Stride: Elizabeth's murder and the double event - by DJA 33 minutes ago.
Witnesses: Why doubt a soldier murdered Tabram? - by Elamarna 57 minutes ago.
Witnesses: The Bucks Row Project part 2 - by Elamarna 1 hours ago.

Most Popular Threads:
Motive, Method and Madness: Same motive = same killer - (13 posts)
Witnesses: Why doubt a soldier murdered Tabram? - (8 posts)
Elizabeth Stride: Elizabeth's murder and the double event - (3 posts)
General Suspect Discussion: Was Ernest Dowson Jack the Ripper? - (2 posts)
General Discussion: Albert Backert - did he emigrate? - (2 posts)
Thompson, Francis: Francis Thompson. The Perfect Suspect. - (1 posts)

Wiki Updates:
Robert Sagar
Edit: Chris
May 9, 2015, 12:32 am
Online newspaper archives
Edit: Chris
Nov 26, 2014, 10:25 am
Joseph Lawende
Edit: Chris
Mar 9, 2014, 10:12 am
Miscellaneous research resources
Edit: Chris
Feb 13, 2014, 9:28 am
Charles Cross
Edit: John Bennett
Sep 4, 2013, 8:20 pm

Most Recent Blogs:
Mike Covell: A DECADE IN THE MAKING.
February 19, 2016, 11:12 am.
Chris George: RipperCon in Baltimore, April 8-10, 2016
February 10, 2016, 2:55 pm.
Mike Covell: Hull Prison Visit
October 10, 2015, 8:04 am.
Mike Covell: NEW ADVENTURES IN RESEARCH
August 9, 2015, 3:10 am.
Mike Covell: UPDDATES FOR THE PAST 11 MONTHS
November 14, 2014, 10:02 am.
Mike Covell: Mike’s Book Releases
March 17, 2014, 3:18 am.

Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Media > Audio -- Visual > Rippercast

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #101  
Old 05-17-2017, 07:12 AM
mklhawley mklhawley is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Greater Buffalo, New York
Posts: 1,849
Default

Unlocked!

So, the original plan was to not only publish in the book but also have a series of articles. And then an idiot local St. Louis documentary company was going to podcast the news and screw it up, since they were going to claim the impossible. I contacted Jonathan so that at least the Ripper community heard it first. I have one computer that I was on Skype, a six foot five inch cigar-smoking gentleman next to me, and transcribed documents spread out for Brian and I to read. The documents are still electronic, and my computer was being used for Skype.

Brian was never going to allow me to be deceitful or he'd beat me up (not really, he's a gentle giant).

Much has not been released and much is still going to surprise you. By all means, I expect skepticism, which is actually helpful. I'm just not in the habit of lying.

And Ally, his discussion was in 1904. Recall, Tumblety had pointed one of those knives at him, the same knives he saw earlier. If you believe Norris claimed his molestation and Night Walkers comment was post-1888, then I will hold you to that claim as you should. There is more.


Sincerely,

Mike
__________________
The Ripper's Haunts (Sunbury Press)
http://www.michaelLhawley.com

Last edited by mklhawley : 05-17-2017 at 07:16 AM.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old 05-17-2017, 07:13 AM
Ally Ally is offline
WWotW
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,162
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steadmund Brand View Post
....I don't feel his intent was to deceive by any means, hence why it was bracketed in the book (with a footnote I am sure)

Steadmund Brand
Mike was entirely forthcoming when asked if this was his addition. I do hope there is a footnote in the book as well, but when questioned there was no attempt at hiding or obfuscation. I don't want people to think this is some AHA gotcha thing, I was trying to do here. I saw something that made me question the read as given and I wanted to put the clarification down. Just an attempt to put down exactly the facts.
__________________

Let all Oz be agreed;
I'm Wicked through and through.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 05-17-2017, 07:15 AM
Steadmund Brand Steadmund Brand is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Buffalo New York area
Posts: 515
Default

What I thought was... when Tumblety threatened Norris and mentioned the disemboweling may have been in 1881- in 1888 after he spoke to him about the Whitechaple murders he remembered what Tumblety had said and got freaked out...but Ally you may be correct as well, sadly no way to clarify as he is long gone

Steadmund Brand
__________________
"The truth is what is, and what should be is a fantasy. A terrible, terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago."- Lenny Bruce
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 05-17-2017, 07:19 AM
Steadmund Brand Steadmund Brand is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Buffalo New York area
Posts: 515
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mklhawley View Post
Unlocked!


Brian was never going to allow me to be deceitful or he'd beat me up (not really, he's a gentle giant).
Tis true I am a 6'5 ex boxer.... but what Mike isn't saying is he is a 6th degree Aikido blackbelt....so I may not mess with him

and remember folks... sometimes a cigar is just a cigar

Steadmund Brand
__________________
"The truth is what is, and what should be is a fantasy. A terrible, terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago."- Lenny Bruce
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old 05-17-2017, 07:20 AM
Ally Ally is offline
WWotW
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,162
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mklhawley View Post
Unlocked!

So, the original plan was to not only publish in the book but also have a series of articles. And then an idiot local St. Louis documentary company was going to podcast the news and screw it up, since they were going to claim the impossible. I contacted Jonathan so that at least the Ripper community heard it first. I have one computer that I was on Skype, a six foot five inch cigar-smoking gentleman next to me, and transcribed documents spread out for Brian and I to read. The documents are still electronic, and my computer was being used for Skype.

Brian was never going to allow me to be deceitful or he'd beat me up (not really, he's a gentle giant).

Much has not been released and much is still going to surprise you. By all means, I expect skepticism, which is actually helpful. I'm just not in the habit of lying.

And Ally, his discussion was in 1904. Recall, Tumblety had pointed one of those knives at him, the same knives he saw earlier. If you believe Norris claimed his molestation and Night Walkers comment was post-1888, then I will hold you to that claim as you should. There is more.


Sincerely,

Mike
I am going to hold to my idea that I am starting to doubt a lot of Norris veracity entirely as he seems an entirely shady and rather gross individual the more I read.

For instance, he was alarmed enough by Tumblety's actions and claims of delight in disemboweling prostitutes... but he thought it was hilarious to take him to a brothel and taunt him with possible victims? WHAT?!

This guy is nuttier than a southern fruitcake. If anyone was a likely psychopath it was this jackhole.
__________________

Let all Oz be agreed;
I'm Wicked through and through.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old 05-17-2017, 07:30 AM
mklhawley mklhawley is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Greater Buffalo, New York
Posts: 1,849
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ally View Post
I am going to hold to my idea that I am starting to doubt a lot of Norris veracity entirely as he seems an entirely shady and rather gross individual the more I read.

For instance, he was alarmed enough by Tumblety's actions and claims of delight in disemboweling prostitutes... but he thought it was hilarious to take him to a brothel and taunt him with possible victims? WHAT?!

This guy is nuttier than a southern fruitcake. If anyone was a likely psychopath it was this jackhole.
Ha! For me, this guy was working for two decades with the police and working with classified cable communications. They had to trust him. He married in 1995, so now that he's giving this testimony, he had to admit he participated in illegal acts as a teenager. Not so good to say if you worked in the police department. I think he was telling the truth but smoothed it over.

After all is released, everyone else can rip on it.

Sincerely,

Mike
__________________
The Ripper's Haunts (Sunbury Press)
http://www.michaelLhawley.com
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 05-17-2017, 07:44 AM
Ally Ally is offline
WWotW
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,162
Default

He wasn't just admitting to as a teenager. He was admitting to scamming Tumblety throughout the years and even trying to set up other people he knew to scam him. And the brothel incident happened only ten years prior so you can hardly claim he was an innocent scamp then. He flat says that he kept up the acquaintance of 20 years because Tumblety was in the habit of spending money on him. That's not a youthful indiscretion. In addition he also squirms on how their association ends. He first tries to claim that he distanced himself from Tumblety (aint' he noble), then turns around and contradicts himself and admits Tumblety distanced himself from him!

He was clearly screwed in the head. If Tumblety actually told this guy that he thought prostitutes ought to be disemboweled and Norris took him to the brothel, which he said he did, simply for the squirming fun of it, Norris was seriously disturbed.
__________________

Let all Oz be agreed;
I'm Wicked through and through.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old 05-17-2017, 07:58 AM
Steadmund Brand Steadmund Brand is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Buffalo New York area
Posts: 515
Default

Remember there are many people who's work and personal life are TOTALLY different...he kind of reminds me of the people into the underground S&M Leather scene in NY in the 70's (not saying he was an S&M guy, just about the two TOTALY SEPERATE LIVES)...it's well known that there were Dr.s and Lawyers and Stock Brokers and Police etc that nobody would have guessed were into that lifestyle....
to me, seems like Norris was probably quiet and unassuming at work and in professional life, and out "hustling" at night....in the shady world of Tumblety....again, just a guess..but that is how it comes across

Steadmund Brand
__________________
"The truth is what is, and what should be is a fantasy. A terrible, terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago."- Lenny Bruce
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #109  
Old 05-17-2017, 08:07 AM
Ally Ally is offline
WWotW
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,162
Default

Oh yes and well, it may not even be all that secret. First of all we are talking about New Orleans here. I don't know if y'all are aware but New Orleans isn't exactly known for its piety and upstanding virtues. And my dad was cop for 40 years in a rather large city. So I well know just because you wear a badge doesn't necessarily mean you are a model of virtue and personal judgment. I mean don't get me wrong, my daddy was a saint but some of those guys...
__________________

Let all Oz be agreed;
I'm Wicked through and through.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #110  
Old 05-17-2017, 09:36 AM
mklhawley mklhawley is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Greater Buffalo, New York
Posts: 1,849
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ally View Post
He wasn't just admitting to as a teenager. He was admitting to scamming Tumblety throughout the years and even trying to set up other people he knew to scam him. And the brothel incident happened only ten years prior so you can hardly claim he was an innocent scamp then. He flat says that he kept up the acquaintance of 20 years because Tumblety was in the habit of spending money on him. That's not a youthful indiscretion. In addition he also squirms on how their association ends. He first tries to claim that he distanced himself from Tumblety (aint' he noble), then turns around and contradicts himself and admits Tumblety distanced himself from him!

He was clearly screwed in the head. If Tumblety actually told this guy that he thought prostitutes ought to be disemboweled and Norris took him to the brothel, which he said he did, simply for the squirming fun of it, Norris was seriously disturbed.
He never admitted to scamming Tumblety for 20 years. Where did you get that? It was a symbiotic relationship. The guy liked Tumblety's money but also did not mind hanging with him and Tumblety liked him. Tumblety never stayed with a young man for that long. Norris is just not saying everything, because this married man had to admit he did things she would not like (so it's not just the police station). Norris even claims he never had sexual relations with Tumblety after the 1881 event.

Tell me another young man Tumblety associated with for 20 years? There is only one other person and he made Tumblety's will. Norris had a friendship with Tumblety, because Tumblety pushed it.

Here is one thing you are not getting about Tumblety. He first hired a young man, but did not immediately attempt to molest him. But within a year, he attempts it. We have multiple accounts of this. Tumblety NEVER waited 8 years to attempt a molestation. You can believe that, Ally, but that does not fit the facts.
__________________
The Ripper's Haunts (Sunbury Press)
http://www.michaelLhawley.com

Last edited by mklhawley : 05-17-2017 at 09:45 AM.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.