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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > Mary Jane Kelly

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  #121  
Old 04-21-2017, 01:42 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_c View Post
"Oh murder" may also have been polite rendition of "oh fu.ck". This politeness is either Kelly's or her neighbours or the Newspapers.
Given Kelly's French pretensions, it might even have been "Ô merde!".

Just kidding.
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  #122  
Old 04-21-2017, 01:45 PM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
Did Prater state that she could recognize the voice?

Did Prater state that she had heard the voice of Kelly?
My dear chap, your questions, which appear to be addressed to me, simply do not follow from what I have posted.

What I posted was corroborating evidence that the cry of murder was a frequent one in the neighbourhood of Whitechapel, as Prater said, thus reducing the probability that the one heard in the early hours of 9 November by residents around Millers Court had anything to do with Kelly's murder.
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  #123  
Old 04-21-2017, 02:06 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Originally Posted by David Orsam View Post
My dear chap, your questions, which appear to be addressed to me, simply do not follow from what I have posted.

What I posted was corroborating evidence that the cry of murder was a frequent one in the neighbourhood of Whitechapel, as Prater said, thus reducing the probability that the one heard in the early hours of 9 November by residents around Millers Court had anything to do with Kelly's murder.
Hi David
yes it does. but dosnt Joshuas find bump it back up a bit since it was probably common knowledge to people of whitechapel that if your in fear of your life to yell Murder? especially if your indoors?
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  #124  
Old 04-21-2017, 02:07 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
Given Kelly's French pretensions, it might even have been "Ô merde!".

Just kidding.
or maybe she yelled "Lizzie". ; )
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  #125  
Old 04-21-2017, 02:11 PM
Simon Wood Simon Wood is offline
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Is it being suggested that, as the cry of murder was so frequent in the neighbourhood of Whitechapel, a policeman patrolling Millers Court—as postulated by Coroner Macdonald—might not have heeded it?
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  #126  
Old 04-21-2017, 02:15 PM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
Hi David
yes it does. but dosnt Joshuas find bump it back up a bit since it was probably common knowledge to people of whitechapel that if your in fear of your life to yell Murder? especially if your indoors?
Not in my opinion Abby because Kelly was hardly likely to have been hoping to attract a passing police officer in Millers Court. The way I read the Star story is that people had to shout "murder" long and hard to attract the attention of a constable if there was a fight but that was in the context of a fight in a lodging house, if you look at the whole story. I would still have expected an instinctive reaction of a woman being attacked by a man with a knife to be a scream (of help).
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  #127  
Old 04-21-2017, 02:22 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Orsam View Post
Not in my opinion Abby because Kelly was hardly likely to have been hoping to attract a passing police officer in Millers Court. The way I read the Star story is that people had to shout "murder" long and hard to attract the attention of a constable if there was a fight but that was in the context of a fight in a lodging house, if you look at the whole story. I would still have expected an instinctive reaction of a woman being attacked by a man with a knife to be a scream (of help).
thanks David
Ive noticed you seem to lean toward a daylight morning murder when it comes to all things Kelly.

Whats up? you got something up your sleeve??
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  #128  
Old 04-21-2017, 02:27 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Orsam View Post
What I posted was corroborating evidence that the cry of murder was a frequent one in the neighbourhood of Whitechapel, as Prater said
Which mitigates the fact that Prater took no particular notice on hearing the cry, but it doesn't mean that she was right to dismiss it.
Quote:
thus reducing the probability that the one heard in the early hours of 9 November by residents around Millers Court had anything to do with Kelly's murder.
I'd agree that a cry of murder in the general neighbourhood on any old night is one thing, but the "Miller's Court Cry" might be quite another. In this case, the cry apparently emanated in the direction of Kelly's room, at a time not incongruent with the possible time of Kelly's death. These factors may elevate the significance of the "Miller's Court Cry" above those cries of a less nefarious nature.
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  #129  
Old 04-21-2017, 02:33 PM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
thanks David
Ive noticed you seem to lean toward a daylight morning murder when it comes to all things Kelly.

Whats up? you got something up your sleeve??
No, I don't lean towards a daylight morning murder at all. In the context of a cry of murder being a frequent occurrence, what I recognise is how easy it is to wake up having heard a cry of murder (which was ignored because it sounded like all the other cries) then learn there was a murder during the night and connect the two events which may not in fact be connected. It's a very common human reaction. My views are wholly unconnected to any thoughts about the time of Kelly's murder, just to question whether it was necessarily at that particular time.
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  #130  
Old 04-21-2017, 02:37 PM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
Which mitigates the fact that Prater took no particular notice on hearing the cry, but it doesn't mean that she was right to dismiss it.
That I don't follow at all Sam I'm afraid. Are you suggesting that Prater should have got out of bed and investigated every single (frequent) cry of murder she heard in the night?
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