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  #101  
Old 04-21-2017, 04:08 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
Erm, didn't Dr Phillips give a figure of 15 minutes?
I'd put it even lower. Fewer than 10 minutes would have been sufficient for the crude evisceration of Annie Chapman.
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  #102  
Old 04-21-2017, 04:27 PM
c.d. c.d. is offline
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I don't see how the the witnesses not knowing the killer factors into it. Didn't they have sketches of suspects as well as line ups?

c.d.
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  #103  
Old 04-21-2017, 04:43 PM
c.d. c.d. is offline
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hi CD
Because he was pissed off and lost his temper. Ive always thought that Schwartz may have actually witnessed the throat cutting but didn't realize it-when he saw BS mans hands go up to her shoulder area. Or it could have happened shortly after he fled.
Hello Abby,

A pissed off BS man presents its own problems. Wouldn't you expect some yelling if he was angry? Yet nobody in the club post Schwartz heard anything. Then you have the problem of how Stride went from where Schwartz saw her to where she was killed. Why accompany a pissed off, angry BS man voluntarily into the passage? What could come of that but a beating? And if she was dragged, you have the cachous problem. I know you don't give that any weight but at some point wouldn't Stride have known she had fallen into the hands of the Ripper and was being dragged to her death? Is it reasonable to believe that the little packet of tissue wrapped cachous which you believe had already survived her being thrown to the ground and her getting up somehow made it through her struggle to stay alive? Also, if she was dragged and fought for her life why were her clothes not torn or disheveled?

To me, it all speaks of her being with a client not the BS man.

c.d.
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  #104  
Old 04-21-2017, 04:54 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Originally Posted by c.d. View Post
Hello Abby,

A pissed off BS man presents its own problems. Wouldn't you expect some yelling if he was angry? Yet nobody in the club post Schwartz heard anything. Then you have the problem of how Stride went from where Schwartz saw her to where she was killed. Why accompany a pissed off, angry BS man voluntarily into the passage? What could come of that but a beating? And if she was dragged, you have the cachous problem. I know you don't give that any weight but at some point wouldn't Stride have known she had fallen into the hands of the Ripper and was being dragged to her death? Is it reasonable to believe that the little packet of tissue wrapped cachous which you believe had already survived her being thrown to the ground and her getting up somehow made it through her struggle to stay alive? Also, if she was dragged and fought for her life why were her clothes not torn or disheveled?

To me, it all speaks of her being with a client not the BS man.

c.d.
Hi CD
Quote:
Wouldn't you expect some yelling if he was angry? Yet nobody in the club post Schwartz heard anything.
because they were singing.

Quote:
Then you have the problem of how Stride went from where Schwartz saw her to where she was killed. Why accompany a pissed off, angry BS man voluntarily into the passage? What could come of that but a beating? And if she was dragged, you have the cachous problem. I know you don't give that any weight but at some point wouldn't Stride have known she had fallen into the hands of the Ripper and was being dragged to her death? Is it reasonable to believe that the little packet of tissue wrapped cachous which you believe had already survived her being thrown to the ground and her getting up somehow made it through her struggle to stay alive? Also, if she was dragged and fought for her life why were her clothes not torn or disheveled?
in one of my favored scenarios he cuts her throat out in the street, which may help explain why she didn't yell loudly, he flees, her hand goes to her cut throat(blood on her hand) as she stumbles toward the sounds of singing(perceived safety/help) into the yard and expires there.

Quote:
To me, it all speaks of her being with a client not the BS man.
well BS man may have been a client, or more likely posing as a client. she just wasn't selling that night, which is why she probably ended up with a throat cut and no mutilations.
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  #105  
Old 04-21-2017, 11:00 PM
John G John G is offline
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Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
Hi CD


because they were singing.



in one of my favored scenarios he cuts her throat out in the street, which may help explain why she didn't yell loudly, he flees, her hand goes to her cut throat(blood on her hand) as she stumbles toward the sounds of singing(perceived safety/help) into the yard and expires there.



well BS man may have been a client, or more likely posing as a client. she just wasn't selling that night, which is why she probably ended up with a throat cut and no mutilations.
That's actually an interesting argument. However, it doesn't explain how the cachous survived the struggle in the street, i e. weren't dropped, or why Stride didn't instinctively draw both hands towards her throat, thus dropping the cachous.

It also doesn't explain how they survived the initial struggle, i.e. how Stride managed to hang on to them whilst being pulled towards the street, spun round, and thrown on to the footway, at which point she would surely have thrown out her hands and spread her fingers in order to break the fall.

Last edited by John G : 04-21-2017 at 11:07 PM.
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  #106  
Old 04-22-2017, 07:11 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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That's actually an interesting argument. However, it doesn't explain how the cachous survived the struggle in the street, i e. weren't dropped, or why Stride didn't instinctively draw both hands towards her throat, thus dropping the cachous.

It also doesn't explain how they survived the initial struggle, i.e. how Stride managed to hang on to them whilst being pulled towards the street, spun round, and thrown on to the footway, at which point she would surely have thrown out her hands and spread her fingers in order to break the fall.
She simply held on to them. As I've mentioned a thousand times, it's common knowledge now people are found dead still clutching objects in their hands, even while having gone through extremely violent situations.
It's a red herring and this is the last time I'm wasting bandwidth on the stupid cashoo.
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"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

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Last edited by Abby Normal : 04-22-2017 at 07:14 AM.
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  #107  
Old 04-22-2017, 07:32 AM
Observer Observer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
in one of my favored scenarios he cuts her throat out in the street, which may help explain why she didn't yell loudly, he flees, her hand goes to her cut throat(blood on her hand) as she stumbles toward the sounds of singing(perceived safety/help) into the yard and expires there.
There was no blood evidence out on the street. A trail of blood ran from Stride's neck down to the gutter, that was it. Consequently your "favoured" scenario is a non starter.
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  #108  
Old 04-22-2017, 07:39 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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There was no blood evidence out on the street. A trail of blood ran from Stride's neck down to the gutter, that was it. Consequently your "favoured" scenario is a non starter.
It was wet that night which may have obscured any blood on the ground,her hand had blood on it which indicates she may stemmed the flow of blood that way by covering the wound with her hand and her scarf was also pulled tight which also may have stemmed blood.

And yes blood ran down her neck into the gutter which could have continued to flow after she lay dying and or dead in the yard.

So much for your non starter
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"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline

Last edited by Abby Normal : 04-22-2017 at 07:46 AM.
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  #109  
Old 04-22-2017, 07:53 AM
Observer Observer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
It was wet that night which may have obscured any blood on the ground,her hand had blood on it which indicates she may stemmed the flow of blood that way by covering the wound with her hand and her scarf was also pulled tight which also may have stemmed blood.

And yes blood ran down her neck into the gutter which could have continued to flow after she lay dying and or dead in the yard.

So much for your non starter
Yeah, dream on. Fact, if she had been cut out on the street then there would have been some evidence of blood spatter, despite the pavement being wet, despite her efforts to stem the flow, and despite the fact that her scarf had been pulled tight.
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  #110  
Old 04-22-2017, 07:56 AM
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The blood pattern, as observed at the scene of her murder, is entirely consistent with her being murdered just inside the gate which is where she was found.
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