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  #21  
Old 04-03-2017, 09:44 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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A question for Tom, from the breathtaking heights of my lofty head:

It would seem that you and me have at the approximate same time come to realize that the killer had cut Nicholsī abdominal wall open, producing a flap in the process.
Chapman had her abdominal wall - all of it - removed in flaps.
Kelly had her entire abdominal wall removed in flaps too.

Nichols therefore fits the overall picture very well.

But what about Elizabeth Jackson, from the torso series? She had HER abdominal wall cut away in large flaps too.
She had her belly ripped open from pubes to sternum.
She had her uterus taken out.
She had a ring stolen from her finger.
She was a prostitute.

In these respects, she is very much the same as the victims in the Ripper series.

My own take on things is that this clinches the deal - the killer is of course one and the same.

What say you, Tom?

Last edited by Fisherman : 04-03-2017 at 09:47 AM.
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  #22  
Old 04-03-2017, 08:54 PM
Tom_Wescott Tom_Wescott is offline
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Originally Posted by Elamarna View Post
Hi Tom

Just finished a first reading.

Truly interesting stuff. Some really good points on Bucks Row I think.

The Goulston street bit was good and should at least make people look at all possabilties.

Berber steer was in great depth and some interesting observations.

As I said to you on here last year I think., greatly anticipated and now fullfied.

Cheers

Steve
Thanks, Steve. Very much appreciated. If I did my job right, each time you read it you'll find something new. The book that does that for me is Evans/Connell 'The Man Who Hunted JTR'. I tried to pack it with stuff.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott
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  #23  
Old 04-03-2017, 08:55 PM
Tom_Wescott Tom_Wescott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
A question for Tom, from the breathtaking heights of my lofty head:

It would seem that you and me have at the approximate same time come to realize that the killer had cut Nicholsī abdominal wall open, producing a flap in the process.
Chapman had her abdominal wall - all of it - removed in flaps.
Kelly had her entire abdominal wall removed in flaps too.

Nichols therefore fits the overall picture very well.

But what about Elizabeth Jackson, from the torso series? She had HER abdominal wall cut away in large flaps too.
She had her belly ripped open from pubes to sternum.
She had her uterus taken out.
She had a ring stolen from her finger.
She was a prostitute.

In these respects, she is very much the same as the victims in the Ripper series.

My own take on things is that this clinches the deal - the killer is of course one and the same.

What say you, Tom?
Fish, I haven't really put much study into Elizabeth Jackson, so I'd wager at this point you know more about it than I do. I tend to defer to Debra Arif on all matters torso.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott
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  #24  
Old 04-03-2017, 10:19 PM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Originally Posted by Tom_Wescott View Post
Fish, I haven't really put much study into Elizabeth Jackson, so I'd wager at this point you know more about it than I do. I tend to defer to Debra Arif on all matters torso.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott
Well, Tom, then itīs about time you spent some time in the company of the Torso killer. You will find him eerily familiar.

If I may offer a piece of advice, then that would be to do it the way you usually do - in Debraīs company.
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  #25  
Old 04-04-2017, 09:41 AM
Tom_Wescott Tom_Wescott is offline
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If I may offer a piece of advice, then that would be to do it the way you usually do - in Debraīs company.

I know you meant that as a barb but it might actually be the wisest thing you've ever said.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott
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  #26  
Old 04-04-2017, 09:58 AM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
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Originally Posted by Tom_Wescott View Post
Thanks, Steve. Very much appreciated. If I did my job right, each time you read it you'll find something new. The book that does that for me is Evans/Connell 'The Man Who Hunted JTR'. I tried to pack it with stuff.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott
Yes great book I agree.

Particularly like the pre attempt in Brady street.

The 3.30 timing for the attack is something I have been exploring myself nice to see I was not the only one looking at the moment.


Steve
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  #27  
Old 04-04-2017, 10:48 AM
Tom_Wescott Tom_Wescott is offline
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Originally Posted by Elamarna View Post
Yes great book I agree.

Particularly like the pre attempt in Brady street.

The 3.30 timing for the attack is something I have been exploring myself nice to see I was not the only one looking at the moment.


Steve
I must say I'm glad to know that as well. We might be wrong, but we're not nuts.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott
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  #28  
Old 04-04-2017, 01:14 PM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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I know you meant that as a barb but it might actually be the wisest thing you've ever said.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott
I am not a very subtle man, Tom. When I want to have a dig at somebody, I normally make sure that somebody can tell.

I did not mean it as a barb at all, actually. It was instead a bow towards Debra, who I think is the real class act on all things Torso.

I find you a refreshing person in many respects, often willing to stick your chin out and promote new thinking. I like that very much. On a number of matters, I disagree with you, but disagreement can be a useful tool too, if put to good use.

I fully realize that a publisher wonīt pull the punches, and so I am not all that worried about your restoration of Lechmere back to a mere withess status. It will take more than a frisky publisher, I can say that much.

But I urge you to look at Jackson, no matter if you do it in conjunction with Debra or not. Therein lies the solution to many questions about the Ripper if I am not totally wrong. And why would I be that...?
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  #29  
Old 04-06-2017, 05:10 AM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
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A question for Tom or indeed others.
Tom the book gave me reason to look again at the blood which was on the pavement.

My thoughts were simply is the pool/stain under Nichols upper body, as described by Thain, the same as seen by Neil?
My initial response was yes, it was simply an extension of the pool reported by Neil, however I have questioned this as Thain is reported as saying it was only visable once the body was moved.

While Inspector Helston does not fully agree with Thians description he certainly seems not to disagree that much.

So it seems we either have a seperate area of blood deposit, or perhaps less controversially an extension of Neil's pool, which may indicate greater blood flow/loss in the area of the neck.

I did raise this on another thread, however the response was for me less than constructive, basically being there could be no more blood in that area as the majority of blood was lost by the abdomen wounds.

So I just wondered if you have any views on the possabilties yourself.

Steve
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  #30  
Old 04-06-2017, 10:20 AM
Tom_Wescott Tom_Wescott is offline
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Originally Posted by Elamarna View Post
A question for Tom or indeed others.
Tom the book gave me reason to look again at the blood which was on the pavement.

My thoughts were simply is the pool/stain under Nichols upper body, as described by Thain, the same as seen by Neil?
My initial response was yes, it was simply an extension of the pool reported by Neil, however I have questioned this as Thain is reported as saying it was only visable once the body was moved.

While Inspector Helston does not fully agree with Thians description he certainly seems not to disagree that much.

So it seems we either have a seperate area of blood deposit, or perhaps less controversially an extension of Neil's pool, which may indicate greater blood flow/loss in the area of the neck.

I did raise this on another thread, however the response was for me less than constructive, basically being there could be no more blood in that area as the majority of blood was lost by the abdomen wounds.

So I just wondered if you have any views on the possabilties yourself.

Steve
Hi Steve, thanks. You might have missed it in the book, but to answer this question I looked at all the evidence regarding Polly's clothes. Had blood flowed from the neck or abdomen and ended up between or under her legs, her skirts and clothing MUST have also become bloodied. But they had not. So, it stands to reason that blood originated from between the legs and after the skirts were raised. As there were no cuts to the legs, I'd say he used his knife to penetrate her vaginally. The other possibility I pursue is that this blood is residual from his having removed her uterus. It's going to be one or both of these things.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott
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