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  #491  
Old 05-12-2017, 10:05 AM
Damaso Marte Damaso Marte is offline
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Originally Posted by Tom_Wescott View Post
Hi Damaso, thanks for that. I'm curious what you thought of the Fanny Mortimer and Israel Schwartz essays. To me those are among the most 'hardcore Ripperology' parts of the book, along with the Nichols stuff and the Goulston Street essay in section 3. My guess is the part where I lost you was in 'Murder in the Neighborhood'. The Stride stuff in that was good but the topography stuff, which works great in a magazine, rather slowed down the pace I had established earlier on. Such is the pitfall of an essay-oriented book. Plus I'm now told it was all wrong, so...

Yours truly ,

Tom Wescott
I was actually reading the Fanny Mortimer/Israel Schwartz essay last night. Fell asleep at 1:00 AM reading it, actually, but not because it was boring.

This is something on which I have well developed views: I am a strong proponent of the idea that Israel Schwartz is not a credible witness and that the easiest solution is to ignore him. Everything else then more or less snaps into place. I'll finish that section tonight.
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  #492  
Old 05-12-2017, 10:08 AM
Tom_Wescott Tom_Wescott is offline
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David,

In case you can't tell, the thread has moved on. I moved on days ago. So, sing a different song. Got any good jokes? <insert insult about my work being the 'biggest joke' here>. No, seriously. Lighten up, will ya? If it were just you, or maybe just Gary, that'd be one thing. But obviously, since some of the biggest losers around have attached themselves to the issue, I cannot answer their questions as a matter of principle. It is my job to deprive them of any and all satisfaction. That doesn't mean I won't answer your pertinent questions, it simply means I will do so at a time and in a manner of my own choosing. I'm not a trained monkey who dances on command. So, no disrespect to you intended and you shouldn't take my obstinance personally.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott
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  #493  
Old 05-12-2017, 10:14 AM
Tom_Wescott Tom_Wescott is offline
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Originally Posted by Damaso Marte View Post
I was actually reading the Fanny Mortimer/Israel Schwartz essay last night. Fell asleep at 1:00 AM reading it, actually, but not because it was boring.

This is something on which I have well developed views: I am a strong proponent of the idea that Israel Schwartz is not a credible witness and that the easiest solution is to ignore him. Everything else then more or less snaps into place. I'll finish that section tonight.
Yes, please. And read the Schwartz one twice if you've got the stomach for it. There's very particular reasons why I believe we're compelled to take Schwartz seriously.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott
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  #494  
Old 05-12-2017, 10:14 AM
David Orsam David Orsam is online now
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I'm not a trained monkey who dances on command.
To repeat the point Tom, you said to me earlier:

"if you have questions, feel free to ask."


Well I asked you some questions and now I'm supposedly trying to command you to dance like a monkey.
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  #495  
Old 05-12-2017, 10:52 AM
Damaso Marte Damaso Marte is offline
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Yes, please. And read the Schwartz one twice if you've got the stomach for it. There's very particular reasons why I believe we're compelled to take Schwartz seriously.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott
Was able to finish the Mortmer/Schwartz essay just now. You do an excellent job of marshaling all the arguments against Schwartz, only to pull away from the obvious conclusion at the last minute through a rather elaborate dance.

I suppose the most agreement you'll get from me on your conclusion is that I agree if Schwartz is a real witness, Pipeman is a better candidate for the Ripper than BS man.
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  #496  
Old 05-12-2017, 11:35 AM
Tom_Wescott Tom_Wescott is offline
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Originally Posted by Damaso Marte View Post
Was able to finish the Mortmer/Schwartz essay just now. You do an excellent job of marshaling all the arguments against Schwartz, only to pull away from the obvious conclusion at the last minute through a rather elaborate dance.

I suppose the most agreement you'll get from me on your conclusion is that I agree if Schwartz is a real witness, Pipeman is a better candidate for the Ripper than BS man.
I invented the argument that Schwartz was not a real witness, so it's mine to pull away from. And I do so because of certain factors that were beyond his control. Namely, that a man similar to Pipeman was placed in the exact same spot around the same time by another witness (Brown) and Schwartz happened to pick a time when the street was empty (confirmed by Mortimer). He also had the correct timing (12:45am, as opposed to midnight). He also stood up to interrogation with Abberline, who had quickly seen through Violenia very recently and would have had his BS detector on high (or so one assumes). Because of these reasons (particularly the first two), it's impossible to conclude he made up the story.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't be caution. You might recall my 'elaborate dance' regarding Schwartz's complete disappearance from the records after Nov. 1st. To date, that is. Hopefully, something will turn up. But this should give everyone pause. Schwartz should not be looked at as the be all end all of Berner Street. The real value of Schwartz is that by providing a more detailed description of Pipeman, he's describing Brown's Overcoat Man, who is the most likely suspect for Stride's murder. If we remove Schwartz, we're still left with Brown as the last person to see Stride alive and with a man.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott
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  #497  
Old 05-12-2017, 06:28 PM
Dane_F Dane_F is offline
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Right, and what I have been asking you repeatedly is what difference does it make that there was a time gap between those two events. In other words, what difference would it make if there was an entire week or an entire month or even an entire year between the time of entry by MM into the hospital building and the time that the record was created showing a date of admission to the hospital of 1 September?
If you cannot see the answer for yourself, I cannot help you. Good day Sir.
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  #498  
Old 05-19-2017, 10:23 AM
David Orsam David Orsam is online now
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That doesn't mean I won't answer your pertinent questions, it simply means I will do so at a time and in a manner of my own choosing. I'm not a trained monkey who dances on command
So Tom, seven days later, eight days after I posted them (#460), are you proposing to answer my "pertinent questions" any time soon?
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  #499  
Old Yesterday, 10:06 PM
Tom_Wescott Tom_Wescott is offline
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So Tom, seven days later, eight days after I posted them (#460), are you proposing to answer my "pertinent questions" any time soon?
Hi David. Not really. But let's talk about other parts of the book. I'd like to hear your counter-argument to my stuff on Packer. I've outlined why he should not be taken seriously as a witness, so It'd be helpful if you (or Ed Stow, Christer, etc) would tell us your reasons why we SHOULD take him seriously.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott
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  #500  
Old Today, 09:46 AM
David Orsam David Orsam is online now
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Hi David. Not really.
Can I ask you to explain why you are not now proposing to answer my questions, Tom?
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