What do Maybrick believers believe about Jim as Jack?

[MayBea]

I've done the research and found that the only other real candidate for the "whoremaster" is the mysterious solicitor from London named "Williams". (Maybrick A to Z)

Michael Maybrick destroyed the love-letters so we don't know who he is.

[Mayerling]

I didn't mean you, GUT.

I'm not one who believes that, if someone objectively discourses on a suspect or issue, he must therefore believe in the suspect or issue.

Cream is a good example of a good subject worth objective discourse because he is a real serial killer of the time. I'd wouldn't mind discussing him just for that reason alone but I'm sure to be greeted with a litany of Joliet, Joliet!

Hi MayBea,

Actually I would discuss Cream without bringing up Joliet Prison per se. He is a fascinating serial killer, but my points would tend not to be useful in finding "Jack".

1) What was Cream's central motive for the four known prostitute murders of 1891-1892: sadistic satisfaction or money and power?
2) How significant is the timing of Cream's murders in 1891-92 regarding other events of the day (including the death of two public men, and the antics of Frederick Deeming as they came out in April 1892, and reflected a bit on "Jack")?

The latter touches on the Whitechapel case, but is really closer to Cream and Deeming sharing the 1892 criminal headlines in Great Britain.

Jeff

[MayBea]

Yes, Mayerling, I believe in co-operating to help people build up a case for a suspect or develop an idea, motives or related self-interests, to discuss various psycho-social dynamics or just test the waters.

Not everyone is ya or nay and then it takes time to figure out what their thinking is. Sometimes I forget what my own position or train of thought is.

For example, I didn't understand what possible motive Maybrick would have except for the motive for the murders given in the Diary.

It's been rightly pointed out that the Diary motive is questionable. But who says a Maybricker believes the motive in the Diary. Why should he or she believe it? Since when is the killer's word the last word?

[Amanda]

Cream's motives..

Hi MayBea,

Actually I would discuss Cream without bringing up Joliet Prison per se. He is a fascinating serial killer, but my points would tend not to be useful in finding "Jack".

1) What was Cream's central motive for the four known prostitute murders of 1891-1892: sadistic satisfaction or money and power?
2) How significant is the timing of Cream's murders in 1891-92 regarding other events of the day (including the death of two public men, and the antics of Frederick Deeming as they came out in April 1892, and reflected a bit on "Jack")?

The latter touches on the Whitechapel case, but is really closer to Cream and Deeming sharing the 1892 criminal headlines in Great Britain.

Jeff

Hi Jeff,
Sorry but couldn't help taking the opportunity to give myself a quick plug!

My book 'Prisoner 4374' is a complete biography of Cream's life, crimes and motives. It has taken over a decade to research and compile, and does not contain any wild speculation.
A large part of the facts, I have taken from Cream's Joliet prison file which is a hefty document containing some amazing nuggets of information which enabled me to piece together his movements, contacts and state of mind.

Do hope you'll give it a read, exact publication date to be confirmed but should be May/June.
Amanda

[MayBea]

Thanks, Amanda. The book sounds interesting. How many paragraphs/pages do you have on Wolfe's Cove?

Re. the 'whoremaster' candidates:

This Google book says Michael Maybrick made a deal with Williams to give him back his love letters if he didn't help the defence.

https://books.google.ca/books?id=Zv2...lawyer&f=false

[Amanda]

Hello...

Hi MayBea,

I actually don't focus on his early life too much, rather than location the pivotal times for Cream were his mother's death and then moving away to college.

Amanda

[MayBea]

Amanda,

I noticed you have come to conclusions on both Jack's and Cream's motives and concluded they are the same.

Might I ask if you think Cream's motive might also fit into the Maybrick scenario somehow.

I accepted Maybrick without understanding what his real motive might be, or without understanding the Diary one, but years later I came to an understanding of what it might be, although it is difficult to explain.

I think the motive I've devised might apply to Cream but I don't know enough about him to say for sure.

[MayBea]

Originally Posted by caz
...Bernard Ryan's The Poisoned Life of Mrs Maybrick - mentions on page 29 that in November 1888 James was complaining to his new Liverpool doctor of ... various skin eruptions...'

It's solved! again.

Nope, pinkmoon. I don't think Blotchy is our man.

And I don't think James was blotchy-faced anyway. Arsenic seems to affect the extremities of the limbs more than the face.

Unsolved, again!

[MayBea]

Here's a new one from the Diary. It's the entry about the murder after Mary Kelly.

"I could not cut like my last, visions of her flooded back as I struck. I tried to quash all thoughts of love."

I don't think he's talking about love for his wife. He's either talking about Mary Kelly, his last, or else he's referring to mystery victim #6.

[MayBea]

William Wilson's a.k.a. John Sullivan's mother was a Mary Jane Kelly who disappeared after his birth in 1887.

The question of Maybrick paternity can be settled with a simple familial comparison DNA test with a living Maybrick relative and a Sullivan descendant.

[Mike J. G.]

Hi MayBea,

This part of the diary concerns the murders, and the bad effect they are having on "Sir Jim", and has nothing to do with sexual intercourse. So quite apart from the million other reasons for rejecting Mike Barrett's forgery claims, I cannot accept that he found these words in a book at home, thought they sounded appropriate in the context of sex and death, and plonked them in the diary at this point. Whoever quoted those words put more thought into it than that, IMHO, and more understanding.

Love,

Caz
X

You'd be surprised at what people pick up whilst reading. Whoever wrote the diary was obviously a reader, imo.

[Iconoclast]

You'd be surprised at what people pick up whilst reading. Whoever wrote the diary was obviously a reader, imo.

Goodness, who on earth would have thought of that???

A writer of a forgery would do some reading and be a reader.

That is sharp, son ...

[Mike J. G.]

Goodness, who on earth would have thought of that???

A writer of a forgery would do some reading and be a reader.

That is sharp, son ...

Tbf, there are many examples of hoaxing, not merely forgery, but hoaxing, where the perpetrator's in all likelihood didn't bother to do much research at all.

There's this weird notion that you'd have to be reading some rare books to have forged the Maybrick diary, when we know that isn't true, as all of the details were contained within books that you could purchase at the time in almost any half-decent bookstore. You could probably have obtained all of the Maybrick stuff in one lunchtime visit to W.H. Smith and had time to pick up a sandwich!