Druitt at Oxford

[Chris Scott]

1881 Census
Surname BALL
Profession Solicitor

Charles S Ball born 1818 St Pancras
Living Tormoham Devon

George L Ball born 1853 Manchester
Living Barton, Lancs

Richard F Ball born 1856 Alderley Edge
Living Chigwell, Essex

Robert J Ball born 1850 St Pancras
Living Stanwell, Middx

Richard F Ball:
Rollo Park, Main Road, Chigwell, Essex
Head: Edward A Ball aged 60 born Bridgwater - Timber Merchant
Wife: Frances M Ball aged 54 born St Merryn, Cornwall
Children:
Edward A aged 27 - Timber merchant
Richard F aged 25 - Solicitor
Robert C aged 24 - Timber merchant
John F aged 22 - Clerk
Joseph H aged 20 - Articled Clerk Architect
William A aged 18 - Pupil Accountant
All born in Alderley Edge, Cheshire
Visitors:
William Garth aged 26 born Bloomsbury - Barrister in Actual Practice
Arthur R Prideaud aged 24 born ity of London - Solicitor

1891:
High Street, Epping, Essex
Head: Edward A Ball aged 37 born Chorley, Cheshire - Timber merchant
Brother: Richard F Ball aged 35 born Chorley - Solicitor
Visitors:
Joseph H Ball aged 30 born Chorley - Architect
Ella G Ball aged 28 born Clifton
Frances D Ball aged 1 month born Farlington, Hants

1901:
Theydon Copt, Theydon Bois, Essex
Head: Richard F Ball aged 45 born Alderley Edge - Solicitor
Wife: Amy E M Ball aged 33 born Filleigh, Devon

Marriage:
1895 Quarter 2
St George Hanover Square
Richard Francis Ball married Amy Ellen M Oliver

[Chris Scott]

The earliest listing I have found for Capel Cure and Ball is an action in 1892
In 1895 the company was known as Capel Cure and Ball and was listed at 32 Fenchurch Street, EC
The last action I have found under this name is in 1931

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Chris.....thanks for that.I take it there was no sight of the Sidney Ball of Toynbee Hall?
Cheers
Norma

[aspallek]

From the 1895 Post Office London Directory:

Capel Cure & Ball (Francis Capel Cure & Richard Francis Ball) 32 Fenchurch Street EC. Apparently there were only two partners, Francis Capel-Cure being one person.

In 1899 the firm is listed at Clement's Inn WC.

There is also in 1895 a Robert John Ball with "H.C. Coote & Ball" 37 Cursitor Street, Chancery Lane EC. There was a W.A. Coote who was secretary of the "National Vigilance Association for the Repression of Criminal Vice & Public Immorality" at 267 Strand but this is getting pretty far afield.

There is also a barrister Edwin Ffoulkes Ball at 21 Old Square, Lincoln's Inn.

[aspallek]

Hi Chris.....thanks for that.I take it there was no sight of the Sidney Ball of Toynbee Hall?
Cheers
Norma

Perhaps I missed something. Who is this Sidney Ball of Toynee Hall? Is this he? Jackson's Oxford Journal 24 February 1877:

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Andy, I am pretty sure this is the one who was active in Toynbee Hall from the start ie in 1884/5/6/7 etc
Cheers

[Johnr]

Thanks Chris,
For all that information about "Richard F.Ball".
That will all be very useful later when we stumble on some link between the two.
I suppose it was all very logical that a London solicitor (Ball) should be staying with a Dorset solicitor (W.H.Druitt) possibly preparing for a case.
Or perhaps they were contemporaries at their school or university?
No doubt we'll learn more later. JOHN RUFFELS.

[aspallek]

See this post http://forum.casebook.org/showpost.p...24&postcount=5 for more information on a potential "Mr. Ball" Wimborne connection.

[aspallek]

From the 1895 Post Office London Directory:

There is also in 1895 a Robert John Ball with "H.C. Coote & Ball" 37 Cursitor Street, Chancery Lane EC. There was a W.A. Coote who was secretary of the "National Vigilance Association for the Repression of Criminal Vice & Public Immorality" at 267 Strand but this is getting pretty far afield.

It seems that this "W.A. Coote" was on a crusade in the late 1880's against pornography. He also started a similar vigilance association in Bristol and the South West. On October 30, 1888 -- during the lull in the Ripper murders -- a Bristol chemist was arraigned for possession of indecent photographs. There were other cases as well.

This is a long shot but... it has been conjectured that the "serious trouble" Druitt had got into was possession of pornography. In light of the later allegations against Cutbush, this could be telling and could give rise to his family suspecting him to be a sexual murderer. Here we have a "Ball" who might have been a visitor to William Harvey Druitt and who might have had a connection to a crusader against pornography. I know, lots of "mights" there. Remember also, for what it may be worth, that Montague also visited William at the end of October 1888.

[Natalie Severn]

This doesn"t surprise me at all Andy.
Sidney Ball was one of the first from a group of students to enthusiastically offer Whitechapel service work to Rev Barnett.
The Toynbee men[ie the young Oxford graduates] had formed themselves into a "Streets Patrol Committee"in 1885[ see Canon Barnett his Life and Work Vol 11 page 305].Reports exist numbering "many folios" on what the men observed in the streets of Whitechapel ,especially concerning violent attacks, drunkedness,"two women fighting in Thrawl Street-[not Annie Chapman by any chance?].One entry concerned two women,stripped to the waist,which even in the early hours of the morning was "enjoyed by many children"------such "iniquitous behaviour" allegedly causing great concern among the genteel Oxford graduates.
Nevertheless the general feelings seem to concur with MrsBarnett"s that during the Autumn of Terrror in 1888, "it was the crucifixion of these poor lost souls which saved the district"......several commentators of the time said the same thing,the most famous of them being George Bernard Shaw.
Regarding the pornography.I know from quotes in Fenian Fire, that there was great concern expressed by those "in the know" -Labouchere etc---that Richard Pigott allegedly dealt a lively trade in a rare type of French pornography.His clients allegedly were a select group of "anti Parnell" Tory MP"s----I would think some of this can be treated lightly but there is possibly a kernel of truth in some of it.
Natalie

[aspallek]

This would appear to be our Robert John Ball (#3) from the 1881 census. Only Druitt connection I can conjecture would be that Robert Druitt was married at St. Pancras. Interesting that the son of an Innkeeper would turn out to be a solicitor but it appears that William Ball was doing quite well.

1. Name William BALL Relationship Head Condition M Gender M Age 61 Occupation Inn Keeper & Butcher Birthplace St Pancras, Middlesex, England Address The Swan, Stanwell, Middlesex, England PRO ref RG11/1329 Folio 102 Page 16 FHL film no. 1341323
Amount paid £0.00

2. Name Sarah BALL Relationship Wife Condition M Gender F Age 54 Occupation Wife Of Innkeeper & Butcher Birthplace Thorn Falcon, Somerset, England Address The Swan, Stanwell, Middlesex, England PRO ref RG11/1329 Folio 102 Page 16 FHL film no. 1341323
Amount paid £0.00

3. Name Robert J. BALL Relationship Son Condition U Gender M Age 31 Occupation Solicitor Birthplace St Pancras, Middlesex, England Address The Swan, Stanwell, Middlesex, England PRO ref RG11/1329 Folio 102 Page 16 FHL film no. 1341323
Amount paid £0.00

4. Name Mary Ann BALL Relationship Dau Condition U Gender F Age 26 Occupation Governess Birthplace Stanwell, Middlesex, England Address The Swan, Stanwell, Middlesex, England PRO ref RG11/1329 Folio 102 Page 16 FHL film no. 1341323
Amount paid £0.00

5. Name James E. BALL Relationship Son Condition U Gender M Age 21 Occupation Carpenter Unemployed Birthplace Stanwell, Middlesex, England Address The Swan, Stanwell, Middlesex, England PRO ref RG11/1329 Folio 102 Page 16 FHL film no. 1341323
Amount paid £0.00

6. Name George BALL Relationship Son Condition U Gender M Age 18 Occupation Assistant To His Father Birthplace Stanwell, Middlesex, England Address The Swan, Stanwell, Middlesex, England PRO ref RG11/1329 Folio 102 Page 16 FHL film no. 1341323
Amount paid £0.00

7. Name Walter SMITH Relationship Nephew Condition U Gender M Age 25 Occupation Visitor Wood Engraver (Artist) Birthplace Marylebone, Middlesex, England Address The Swan, Stanwell, Middlesex, England PRO ref RG11/1329 Folio 102 Page 16 FHL film no. 1341323
Amount paid £0.00


And in 1891:

BALL Robert John Head M M 41 Solicitor(Em'er) London - St Pancras
BALL Sarah Wife M F 31 Berkshire - Virginia Water Place known only in Surrey.
BALL Frank Leslie Son - M 7 Scholar Middlesex - Staines
BALL Ethel May Dau - F 3 Middlesex - Staines
SAUNDERS Ernest Nephew - M 2 Middlesex - Southall
SPITTLE Kate Servnt S F 20 General Domestic Servnt(Em'ee) Middlesex - Ruislip

[aspallek]

Looks like we may have been on a false trail as to the "Richard Ball" (if that was indeed his Christian name) who visited William Harvey Druitt in 1888. Was it Richard Ball Rutter?

Bristol Mercury and Daily Post, 12 April 1888:

[mpriestnall]

I know "aspallek"'s post nbr 26 is an old post from 2008, but I am keen to know if the aforementioned "Richard John Ball" in the 1881 census has a confirmed connection to MJD?

[GUT]

I know "aspallek"'s post nbr 26 is an old post from 2008, but I am keen to know if the aforementioned "Richard John Ball" in the 1881 census has a confirmed connection to MJD?

I only sees Robert, no Richard.

[rjpalmer]

Looks like we may have been on a false trail as to the "Richard Ball" (if that was indeed his Christian name) who visited William Harvey Druitt in 1888. Was it Richard Ball Rutter?

Bristol Mercury and Daily Post, 12 April 1888:

I think his false trail is a false trail.

The William Druitt connected to Richard Ball Rutter was almost certainly not William Harvey Druitt, but the other William Druitt, a clergyman and cousin of some sort, who (like Rutter) lived in Bristol towards the end of his life.