How old?

[FrankO]

Hi all,

For what it's worth, I see some maturity in the way the Ripper went about his crimes, which tells me he was out of his early 20s, but the curiosity for and exploration of the female body that I see in the mutilations tell me he was still quite young. So, my guess would be that he was about 28.

All the best,
Frank

[BLUE WIZZARD]

I'm very open minded about Jack. I still envision him to be in his thirties, but I definitely wouldn't rule out someone as young as their early to mid twenties.

I definitely think he was a local man who was just as shabby as the rest of the populace, and one who we'll sadly never know the identity of.

I reckon it's likely he was the man who Lawende saw (if only he had seen Kate's face we would've almost certainly had known!). That's the thing about this case; there's so many coincidences and people having just missed him or just not enough proof. Whoever Jack the Ripper was, he was one hell of a lucky bloke.

Jack sure was a lucky bloke, I would guess that a lot of prostitutes knew Jack personally, but not as the ripper, so when he decided to get friendly they would not have any fear of him. I would bet if they were asked about the Jack they knew, they would say, Oh what a sweet and gentle man he was, he would give you the shirt off his back, God bless him.

BW

[BillieHoliday]

Hi all,

For what it's worth, I see some maturity in the way the Ripper went about his crimes, which tells me he was out of his early 20s, but the curiosity for and exploration of the female body that I see in the mutilations tell me he was still quite young. So, my guess would be that he was about 28.

All the best,
Frank

I'm with you Frank, I've always thought the age of 28 was our boy.

[Mascara & Paranoia]

I'm leaning more towards Jack being the age of 28 now too.

[LadyG]

Age? A very spry and inspired 70. (she sez snickerin' up 'er sleeve) Of course, I believe he was no low class local, who by the age of 30 look 50ish from a hard life and hard work. Probably had all his teeth! Seriously, a guesstimation of late 30s-40s makes sense-- an adult mature enough to have a certain air and confidence, appealing to his victims at least as far as prospect of payment and safety is concerned. I don't think there would be much trouble getting his victim up a dark alley, despite the autumn of terror, especially plied with drink. He merely needs to win their trust, and as sadly demonstrated by a plethora of murderers, this was easy enough. After all, there was a great deal of competition for clientele-- younger, better looking and even cheaper ladies in the streets-- those long in the tooth and lacking their earlier youthful charms were lucky to earn enough for a doss. And I firmly believe in the curious human way of thinking, 'that will never happen to me!'. A man about 40 would and could come across as established, stable, educated, and not the sort of bestial fiend as was being publickly promoted. Again, just my random thoughts.

[Ben]

Hi LadyG,

I would tend to disagree that the district's "low class locals" would have appeared older than their years by 20 years. Evidence from the Whitechapel murders themselves suggests very strongly that this was not the case, with some of the victims reportedly looking younger than their actual age. As far as a "a certain air and confidence" went, I would argue that this wouldn't have been a middle-aged monolopy. A man in his later twenties could easily have exuded the sort of confidence you're envisaging. The ability to appear "established" and "educated" wouldn't have been the exclusive reserve of middle-aged punters either, and I'd urge particular caution with these two virtues since they were so unlikely to have rated very highly on the client-picking criteria of the prostitutes. Indeed, since a very small minority of their client-base would have been "educated" to any appreciable degree, they might have been particularly wary of anyone who "stood out" in that regard.

Since most witness described a man of around 28-30, that would be my bet, and a tried and tested "low class local" who didn't draw attention himself would undoubtedly have been the group that appealed most to the prostitutes at the height of the Autumn of Terror.

Best regards,
Ben

[Celesta]

Unless he was the Hardiman boy, who was around 16 to 17, I don't think he was younger than 25.

Let's not forget some witnesses saw an older gent, the shabby genteel man. Just how old older was, I'm uncertain.

I think that if he wasn't Mrs Hardiman's son, then he was about 30.

Ben, don't you think his ability to con people would have been important? Even if he was moderately educated, he might have been able to muster enough charm to get through their reticence to go off with him. Also, the ability to speak well would give him an air of respectability. Frankly, I don't see him doing a lot of schmoozing but as rather more of an opportunist.

[Ben]

Hi Celesta,

The problem with Liz Long's age estimate of the "shabby genteel" suspect was her failure to get a front-on view of the man. Assessing a suspect's age by glancing only at his back is notoriously tricky.

Ben, don't you think his ability to con people would have been important?

Absolutely, but just like a modern-day dodgy car salesman, you don't need formal education to cultivate a "conning" ability. In order to manipulate successfully, you need the gifts that were were bestowed upon you at birth, and a history of criminal activity wouldn't have hindered the learning experience in that regard either. The ability to appear overtly respectable or well-spoken was unlikely to have done much to appeal to the sensibilities of a desperate prostitute, except perhaps deter them on the grounds that they were obviously out-of-place.

He didn't need to be charming.

He just needed to be normal.

Best regards,
Ben

[LadyG]

It's good to disagree. That people who knew Liz Stride commented on her more youthful appearance is documented, and I agree. A great deal is in the genes, as well. But for men? Possibly working outside in all weather, working with their hands, heavy labor, heavy drink, possible disease, injury and neglected hygiene- not all apply to every case of course. A broad generality and my opinion that these do tend to age individuals, as well may be argued that these same things could also breed strength and health. Just observations.
That a man in his late 20s could exude the air of cofidence I mention, he would need be a student of human behaviour, and certinly such is possible. I do not honestly know how much these ladies required, but there is always the notion that older, established, educated etc. clients were considerd less of a threat. Again a generality, and my observation, speaking as a woman but not on the line! And presumably a man of those qualities would be clever enough to know just how much of these to show.
Witnesses also describe a man about 40. Not my intention to convince anyone to my way of thinking-- differing opinions again, all based on each person's research, study and observation. Keeps all the doors open and all bases covered-- and makes for great exchanges and good points all around! Thanks for you reply and thoughts!

[Celesta]

Hi Ben,

Absolutely, Mrs Long was unable to see his face so it was her impression that he was an older man. It's an impression, but I think we need to keep it in mind.

Again, I agree with you that he didn't have to be formally educated. There are people who seem to be born with the ability to charm or play people. Others, like narcissists and psychopaths make it an avocation. It's their stock and trade. Having said that, I'm not so sure he had to con them, at least not much. They needed money, they thought he had it, and he managed to give the appearance of being non-lethal.

I mentioned the education or the ability to speak well because people who possess these are perceived as being respectable and thus safe, when they may be anything but.

So, yeah, I think you're right; he just had to be normal. He had to seem normal. But did it require a bit of a con for someone like Jack to seem normal? I don't think we're dealing with a heavy duty charmer, just someone who could seem normal and not put out bad vibes long enough to get them alone. That's all he had to do.

[Ben]

Hi LadyG,

I do not honestly know how much these ladies required, but there is always the notion that older, established, educated etc. clients were considerd less of a threat.

...And I'm inclined to challenge that notion.

The least threatening type of suspect to a destitute prostitute was the tried and tested local; someone who didn't draw attention to himself, but rather blended into the environment; a vaguely familiar face in the crowd or nodding acquaintance. Someone who appeared conspicuously "established" or educated" in an area where such men were in the small minority was more likely to have had the effect of deterring prostitutes rather than attracting them, especially at the time of the murders when popular perception dictated the the killer may have had medical knowledge. A man in his late-20s (or even early or mid twenties) would not have needed to study human behaviour any more than his middle-aged counterparts - he just needed to have natural confidence; confidence of the order that was never the reserve of older man.

Very few witnesses described a man of about 40 - only one, in fact; the man observed by Elizabeth Long from the rear. The strong preponderance of evidence described a younger man whose appearance did not suggest education or class.

But for men? Possibly working outside in all weather, working with their hands, heavy labor, heavy drink, possible disease, injury and neglected hygiene- not all apply to every case of course.

I doubt it would have made any more difference to the ageing appearance of men that a life of prostitution would have on the ageing appearance of women. Both involved hard toil and more than enough alcohol and other health hazard.

Thanks for you reply and thoughts!

And thanks for yours, LadyG.

Best wishes,
Ben

[Ben]

Hi Celesta,

I mentioned the education or the ability to speak well because people who possess these are perceived as being respectable and thus safe, when they may be anything but.

Given the innate suspicion of the upper-classes that had been exacerbated by the suggestion that the killer may have been a doctor, a well-spoken voice and the impression of education may have agitated the suspicions of the prostitutes who were used to local non-descripts. Fundamentally, the appearance of an educated, overly charming outsider would have pandered to natural fears of the unknown, and such a person was at a disadvantage when procuring prostitutes when compared to your local grocer or baker.

Whatever Mrs. Long's impression was, the fact that she only acquired a fear-view sighting increased the chances of it having been a mistaken impression.

Best regards,
Ben

[LadyG]

Again, thanks for your response! Healthy challenge, that, and fair enough, but we could spend quite a bit of time discussing our takes, and we should agree to disagree. Suffice to say, we both have reasons for our beliefs, and documentation to back them up. I think this is the sort of discussion to be enjoyed in person over a pint, or cup of tea, depending on one's preference! And in my case, a cigar or three!

[Ben]

I'll cheerfully take a puff (and swig!) of that, Lady.

[LadyG]

It's a date! Yer on, mate! Say, the Ten Bells?