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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Maybrick, James

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  #4451  
Old 04-26-2018, 10:52 AM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjpalmer View Post
He concludes the ink didn't go on the paper in 'recent years' and suggests it could be as old as 90 years or more.
It's a little known fact that Voller qualified his opinion on this subject in a letter to Dr Nick Warren dated 8th February 1996, as follows:

"It was an honest opinion, taking into account all the known facts and making due allowance for the various unknowns and purely on the basis of appearances, I can see no reason to change that opinion. What you may not be aware of however, is that having expressed this opinion, I was asked whether I could think of any way in which such an appearance could be simulated by a forger and the gist of my reply was that I could not think of any method which would not be unmasked by chemical analysis. In the light of your comments about Mike Barrett [that he had once been a freelance writer], I rather regret making that statement because even at the time, I knew it not to be entirely true. There is in fact such a method but I did not think it even worth mentioning because it seemed to me that a complete idiot such as I assumed Mike Barrett to be, could not possibly comprehend the details."

He then sets out a possible method of forgery which might have fooled him, involving the use of a modern ink chemically identical or near chemically identical to a genuine Victorian ink, an accelerated fading apparatus (which could either be a big carbon arc lamp within a metal drum, a xenon arc lamp or a mercury-tungsten fluorescent lamp) and an exposure of the text to the radiation from one of these lamps a few weeks after it was written. He says he does not know how long it would take to produce an 80-90 year old fading effect because no experiment had ever been conducted.

He goes on:

"I also have to say (ruefully) that as a method of forgery, the above technique would probably produce more convincing results in amateurish rather than professional hands because a person unused to the finer points of the operation of the equipment would probably obtain willy-nilly, exactly the sort of uneven fading that is characteristic of old documents."

Voller was sufficiently uncertain about the age of the Diary to say to Dr Warren in a subsequent letter dated 13 February 1996 that, "your remarks about the text actually having been written by some nameless confederate (I have always thought that Anne Barrett was the favourite suspect) have given me food for thought."

Perhaps most importantly he concedes in this letter that, "at least some of the effects of an accelerated fading apparatus could be duplicated" by the use of "no more than an ordinary sunlamp".
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  #4452  
Old 04-26-2018, 11:25 AM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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I believe that many of those commenting on the subject have never thoroughly read the 'Diary'.
Au contraire, I think you'll find that many of those commenting on the subject have read the Diary very thoroughly and have noted the presence of an expression - "one off instance" - which was not known in 1889, thus revealing the Diary to be a later forgery.
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Old 04-26-2018, 09:34 PM
Purkis Purkis is offline
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Somebody, at some point was the first person to put 'one off instance' into print.
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  #4454  
Old 04-26-2018, 11:08 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is online now
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Originally Posted by Purkis View Post
Somebody, at some point was the first person to put 'one off instance' into print.
Several decades before it's ever seen again, and in a short document which contains other anachronistic phrases such as "spread mayhem"?
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  #4455  
Old 04-27-2018, 02:29 AM
Purkis Purkis is offline
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Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
Several decades before it's ever seen again, and in a short document which contains other anachronistic phrases such as "spread mayhem"?
Quite possibly, yes.
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  #4456  
Old 04-27-2018, 02:53 AM
Purkis Purkis is offline
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Less far fetched, in my opinion, than the idea that a modern forger could create a document, pre-internet, so accurate in it's tone and language that one phrase is still debated all these years later.
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  #4457  
Old 04-27-2018, 03:31 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is online now
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Originally Posted by Purkis View Post
Less far fetched, in my opinion, than the idea that a modern forger could create a document, pre-internet, so accurate in it's tone and language that one phrase is still debated all these years later.
The diary is neither accurate in tone or language, and far from it. It's a train-wreck on both counts.
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  #4458  
Old 04-27-2018, 03:45 AM
Graham Graham is offline
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Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
The diary is neither accurate in tone or language, and far from it. It's a train-wreck on both counts.
As I and others have said previously, Sam, the Diary right from the start struck me as being written by someone with not a lot of literary skill trying to make his prose (such as it was) 'sound Victorian'. It didn't and doesn't cut it for me.

Graham
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  #4459  
Old 04-27-2018, 04:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Orsam View Post
On the other hand, every single diary defender claims that Mike was being honest when saying that he received the diary in the Saddle pub, even though there is absolutely no supporting evidence of any such transfer occurring.
Er, so you can quote where Mike ever said he received the diary in the Saddle, can you David?

And you can quote even a single 'diary defender' claiming Mike was being honest when saying this, can you?

Very interesting, because I have been under the impression since reading my first diary book that Mike always denied receiving the diary in any pub, but insisted he got it from Tony in his own home, while his poor dead pal was housebound - when he was not dropping his poor dead pal in it by accusing him of being involved in forgery.

Funny that.

I have long maintained that you could tell when Mike was lying his head off about the diary - when his lips were moving.

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  #4460  
Old 04-27-2018, 05:14 AM
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caz caz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Orsam View Post
From Inside Story:

Page 96

"Diamine’s chemist Alec Voller…"

Page 168

"More controversially, Alec Voller, who would examine the Diary on 30 October 1995…"

Page 238

"On 20 October 1995 came a rebuttal of this possibility from a source who could hardly be bettered, Alec Voller, head chemist at Diamine ink....Voller announced his conclusion after barely two minutes…"

How Voller managed to managed to form any conclusions about the Diary ten whole days before he actually examined it is a mystery.
So good he managed to managed to do it twice!

And where David writes Page 238, he actually means Page 206.

Quote:
Voller, if he is actually entitled to be referred to as Dr Voller, is, presumably, a doctor of Chemistry or something like that (although Shirley Harrison only refers to him as "ALEC VOLLER Bsc", 2003 book, p.344, which isn't a doctoral degree) whereas Dr Nick Warren is, I believe, a proper medical doctor (or surgeon), so that might account for the use of a title in his respect.
Robert Smith refers to 'Dr Voller' on pages 4, 5, 6 and 8 of his 25 Years..., published last year, while also referring to 'Dr Warren'. I assumed Robert would know.

Inside Story, from 2003, refers only to 'Nick Warren, a London-based surgeon', so we were at least consistent.

If Voller is indeed a doctor of Chemistry, does he not deserve the same title as Warren gets in the same post?

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Caz
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Last edited by caz : 04-27-2018 at 05:22 AM.
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