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Maybrick, James: One Incontrovertible, Unequivocal, Undeniable Fact Which Refutes the Diary - by caz 1 hour and 2 minutes ago.
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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Maybrick, James

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  #4401  
Old 04-24-2018, 03:29 AM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
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Surely its not as simple to dismiss as that RJ? Obviously we cant say with certainty that it was bone black but it displayed the properties (enough to make a scientist say that it could have been.) It also appears, from David’s post that bone black was considered at that time to have antidote properties.

Its yet another ‘what if?’

If it was proven not to be bone black then end of.

However, if it was proven to be bone black, then we either have a) a pointer towards the diary being written by a drug user (note that i didnt say Maybrick or Jack ) b) evidence that the forger showed Orsam-like attention to detail in putting bone black into the diary or c) a very lucky forger who chose a journal unaware that it contained bone black.

Unless there is still some of this powder in the diary and further tests can be done (and im unsure if they would be able to really prove anything) we are left with nothing more than an intriguing detail.
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  #4402  
Old 04-24-2018, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
Why didn't you have T-shirts made with "Sam Flynn is a complete fvckwit" written on them in big letters?

One link would have done.
Now you know how others feel, Gareth.

I've beaten David to it and am currently sporting my own T-shirt with "The world's greatest expert on the diary and watch according to David Orsam is a total tit" written on it in big letters. It's a bit on the large side to get all the letters in, but only the first eleven words fit on the front so the last six had to go on the back.

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Old 04-24-2018, 06:21 AM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
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Originally Posted by caz View Post
Now you know how others feel, Gareth.

I've beaten David to it and am currently sporting my own T-shirt with "The world's greatest expert on the diary and watch according to David Orsam is a total tit" written on it in big letters. It's a bit on the large side to get all the letters in, but only the first eleven words fit on the front so the last six had to go on the back.

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Caz
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  #4404  
Old 04-24-2018, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Graham View Post
OK Sam. If I can take just a quick trip into Never-Never Land, and suggest that if old Maybrick was feeling a tad off-colour thanks to his arsenic habit, then perhaps as bone-black was in those days an accepted 'medicine' and household product, and there was some in the kitchen cupboard, he got some down him and spilled it on the Diary as he was writing. Do I believe this? Well......

Graham
Easier to swallow might be the fact that our hoaxer should have been well aware that "Sir Jim" suffered from serious gastric problems and discomfort, for which he might reasonably have tried a variety of tummy powders and what have you. In early pregnancy I suffered with terrible indigestion and ate Tums like they were sweeties.

Alternatively, could bone black have been used by our hoaxer to absorb ink blots?

Less easy to explain is what bone black would have been doing in a photo album featuring snaps such as that donkey grinning next to a gravestone.

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Old 04-24-2018, 07:09 AM
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Anyway, it seems strange that if Feldman found this to be exciting evidence he didn't have the black dust analyzed further.
Hi rj,

I don't think Feldy was ever given access, was he? Probably for the best, I'd have thought.

He was also so certain the diary was genuine, that I doubt he'd have seen the point in throwing much of his own money at such an analysis, if even a positive outcome could be explained away easily enough as the work of an enterprising hoaxer.

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Caz
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  #4406  
Old 04-24-2018, 09:29 AM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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Sorry to see that your account was hacked yesterday by a sulky, petulant child, Sam Flynn, hope you've managed to regain control now.
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  #4407  
Old 04-24-2018, 09:31 AM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
However, if it was proven to be bone black, then we either have a) a pointer towards the diary being written by a drug user (note that i didnt say Maybrick or Jack ) b) evidence that the forger showed Orsam-like attention to detail in putting bone black into the diary or c) a very lucky forger who chose a journal unaware that it contained bone black.
That's simply not true though Herlock. There were many other possible uses for bone black, including, as I have said, a supposed cure for indigestion, so it's presence is not in any way a pointer towards the Diary having been written by a drug user, nor does it show that the forger was "lucky" at all. To me it just shows that supporters of the Diary are drawing tenuous connections here.
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  #4408  
Old 04-24-2018, 11:29 AM
rjpalmer rjpalmer is offline
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Herlock, if you imagine the Diarist scribbling madly away while snorting, chewing, or fumbling with his charcoal tablets, you've fallen at the first hurdle. The black powder was not found in the Diary per se, but found in the edges of the cut-out pages, so it must have been associated with those now missing pages. I also suspect that you'll find that the charcoal used to treat indigestion,etc is not made out of animal bones for obvious reasons. Bone char is, however, commonly used as a pigment in inks and paints. It's easier for me to imagine Barrett scraping away at something with his Stanley knife or experimenting with a powdered ink that used bone char as its pigment.
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Old 04-24-2018, 11:38 AM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Orsam View Post
That's simply not true though Herlock. There were many other possible uses for bone black, including, as I have said, a supposed cure for indigestion, so it's presence is not in any way a pointer towards the Diary having been written by a drug user, nor does it show that the forger was "lucky" at all. To me it just shows that supporters of the Diary are drawing tenuous connections here.
Thank you pointing that out David.

I’d have thought though that it shouldn’t be surprising that when a substance which could be used for, amongst other things, an antidote, is found between the pages of a diary purported to have been written by a drug addict then the ‘potential’ link was certain to be pointed out. I wonder how prevalent bone black was in Victorian households?
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  #4410  
Old 04-24-2018, 11:42 AM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
I’d have thought though that it shouldn’t be surprising that when a substance which could be used for, amongst other things, an antidote, is found between the pages of a diary purported to have been written by a drug addict then the ‘potential’ link was certain to be pointed out.
Well, actually, I would have thought it would be surprising that a drug addict is in possession of an antidote for the drug they are taking because they are presumably taking the drug for pleasure to make them feel better and I would have expected such an antidote to be held by a medical person for use when someone has actually been poisoned.
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