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Most Recent Posts:
Maybrick, James: Acquiring A Victorian Diary - by rjpalmer 22 minutes ago.
Maybrick, James: Acquiring A Victorian Diary - by rjpalmer 39 minutes ago.
Maybrick, James: Acquiring A Victorian Diary - by Sam Flynn 41 minutes ago.
Maybrick, James: Acquiring A 20th Century Word Processor - by rjpalmer 44 minutes ago.
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Motive, Method and Madness: Same motive = same killer - by Herlock Sholmes 59 minutes ago.

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Maybrick, James: Acquiring a Life - (7 posts)
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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Maybrick, James

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  #371  
Old 03-21-2018, 05:10 PM
Observer Observer is offline
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I think the problem with that is you’re debating with posters who aren’t prepared to accept normal arguments, who use supposition as fact and who have personal interests in prolonging the discussion.
The bottom line is that some people are not prepared to accept that it’s possible to draw conclusions about the diary, the watch etc. indeed, it’s hard to imagine the kind of proof that would not be discounted - a video recording of Barrett writing the diary would be dismissed instantly!

It’s classic conspiracy theorist-techniques: question every little discrepancy in the sources, assume the most far fetched scenarios on the basis that they can’t be ruled out, discount sources not to your liking and cast doubt over every little detail. That way, there’s always more to discuss, and if one is hoping to sell books or be invited as guest speaker to a conference, then more discussion is good, right?

So Steve Elamarna is right: there’s little point in continuing. You and David Orsam are doing stellar work trying to keep arguments empirically based, but I just think you’re up against people whose only objective, for whatever reason, is to continue the discussion far beyond reason.
Great post Katrup. Post #353 illustrates the points you make to a tee. Your point about the selling of books might well apply here. I brought this up some months ago. Is there another rip off book on the horizon?
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  #372  
Old 03-21-2018, 05:31 PM
Observer Observer is offline
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Originally Posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
I sense frustration that the watch can’t be dismissed easily.
Your senses are letting you down I'm afraid.
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  #373  
Old 03-22-2018, 02:18 AM
Graham Graham is offline
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In Post 356 Caz says that Mr Dundas described another watch which wasn't the 'Maybrick Watch'. I don't recall reading anything about this elsewhere, so wonder if Caz would kindly explain further?

And still nowt about the 'seven victims' versus the 'five initials'.

Graham
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  #374  
Old 03-22-2018, 03:01 AM
Observer Observer is offline
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Originally Posted by Graham View Post
In Post 356 Caz says that Mr Dundas descMurphy other watch whihe 'Maybrick Watch'. I don't recall reading anything about this elsewhere, so wonder if Caz would kindly explain further?

And still nowt about the 'seven victims' versus the 'five initials'.

Graham
Paul Feldman mentioned two watches in his book. I mentioned this some time ago and was told to stop "listening to Feldy". It seems the person who advised me to "stop listening to Feldy" is now suggesting there is a possibilty that there were two watches.

Regardless of how many watches there were Mr Dundas repaired Murphy's watches, and when asked couldn't recall the marks scratched into the "Maybrick watch". There's no doubting the fact that he would have examined the marks of all the watches he repaired, they are put there as an aid to inform whoever is servicing the watch. I contend that if the name Maybrick had been in evidence then he would have remembered it. He didn't remember it.

I brought this point up some time ago, and was told would you believe that perhaps Dundas didn't have a microscope!

As I've said, jewellers have ample optical tools to examine the tiniest details whilst repairing watches. They don't need microscopes.
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  #375  
Old 03-22-2018, 03:22 AM
Graham Graham is offline
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Originally Posted by Observer View Post
Paul Feldman mentioned two watches in his book. I mentioned this some time ago and was told to stop "listening to Feldy". It seems the person who advised me to "stop listening to Feldy" is now suggesting there is a possibilty that there were two watches.

Regardless of how many watches there were Mr Dundas repaired Murphy's watches, and when asked couldn't recall the marks scratched into the "Maybrick watch". There's no doubting the fact that he would have examined the marks of all the watches he repaired, they are put there as an aid to inform whoever is servicing the watch. I contend that if the name Maybrick had been in evidence then he would have remembered it. He didn't remember it.

I brought this point up some time ago, and was told would you believe that perhaps Dundas didn't have a microscope!

As I've said, jewellers have ample optical tools to examine the tiniest details whilst repairing watches. They don't need microscopes.
I think I'm with you on this, Observer. It's ages since I read Feldman's book - am currently re-reading Ripper Diary. I'm wondering if in fact we're all just wasting our time....

I'm going to sit down and have a nice cup of tea.

Graham
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  #376  
Old 03-22-2018, 03:22 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is online now
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Originally Posted by Graham View Post
And still nowt about the 'seven victims' versus the 'five initials'.
Independent opportunist hoaxers who plumped for different numbers? That the watch only gives those five is probably due to their "canonicity" as evidenced by recent popular books (e.g. Rumbelow, Fido) and media articles.
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  #377  
Old 03-22-2018, 03:29 AM
Graham Graham is offline
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Independent opportunist hoaxers who plumped for different numbers? That the watch only gives those five is probably due to their "canonicity" as evidenced by recent popular books (e.g. Rumbelow, Fido) and media articles.
That's exactly the point I'm making, Sam. I've done very little Ripper reading over the past few years, so I'm a bit rusty, but am I correct in saying that earlier Ripper authors such as Dan Farson considered Martha Tabram, for example, a Ripper victim? Perhaps the first Ripper victim?

And if dear old Jim was boasting in the Diary about bumping off a couple of unfortunate ladies in Manchester, where were their initials on the Watch?

The thot plickens.

Graham
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  #378  
Old 03-22-2018, 04:54 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is online now
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Originally Posted by Graham View Post
am I correct in saying that earlier Ripper authors such as Dan Farson considered Martha Tabram, for example, a Ripper victim? Perhaps the first Ripper victim?
I'll have to check Farson when I get home, Graham, but I would suggest that neither his book, nor those of others like Cullen and Odell, achieved the outreach of Rumbelow, Fido and - especially - Knight, to say nothing of Michael Caine, in which works the "canonical five" victims were firmly established, and none of which pre-dated the mid-1970s.
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  #379  
Old 03-22-2018, 06:05 AM
Graham Graham is offline
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I'll have to check Farson when I get home, Graham, but I would suggest that neither his book, nor those of others like Cullen and Odell, achieved the outreach of Rumbelow, Fido and - especially - Knight, to say nothing of Michael Caine, in which works the "canonical five" victims were firmly established, and none of which pre-dated the mid-1970s.
Thanks Sam. Farson's was the first Ripper book I ever read. I've still probably got a copy, as well as at least some of the others, but if so they'll be up in the loft in a big box by order of wife. Also read Knight's book, well-written admittedly, but did he ever fall for it!

Graham
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  #380  
Old 03-22-2018, 07:17 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Originally Posted by Graham View Post
That's exactly the point I'm making, Sam. I've done very little Ripper reading over the past few years, so I'm a bit rusty, but am I correct in saying that earlier Ripper authors such as Dan Farson considered Martha Tabram, for example, a Ripper victim? Perhaps the first Ripper victim?

And if dear old Jim was boasting in the Diary about bumping off a couple of unfortunate ladies in Manchester, where were their initials on the Watch?

The thot plickens.

Graham
sounds like the watch forgers didn't read the diary forgers close enough.
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