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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Maybrick, James

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  #341  
Old 03-20-2018, 07:35 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
Hi Caz and Gareth,

I accept that whoever did it didn’t need to be a master craftsman but I still don’t think that I could do it for example. Especially the signature. But the point Caz has made is surely the important one. Creating the initials and signature that could give a scientific examiner no cause to doubt that it could have been done in 1888/9 would require very high levels of skill. I may be recalling incorrectly here but didn’t the scientist who did the test (the unusual name of Turgoose [or something similar] comes to mind) say that he couldn’t have replicated it?
If it is possible to apply those kind of scratches to a gold watch and include an ageing process (and I’ve no doubt that it is) we are left with a question that is probably impossible to answer.
Did Albert Johnson or his brother know anyone with the required high levels of skill and knowledge? And furthermore wouldn’t there be a risk of him crawling out of the woodwork for a bit of publicity or possible reward (via a newspaper story for example) by shouting “it was me?”
Hi Herlock
It wouldn't be too hard to figure out that if you wanted to make engravings in something appear old, or at least obfuscate the matter, you would scratch them in there lightly, or however, and then "buff" them out (for lack of better word) to make it appear old. no?
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  #342  
Old 03-20-2018, 08:57 AM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
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Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
Hi Herlock
It wouldn't be too hard to figure out that if you wanted to make engravings in something appear old, or at least obfuscate the matter, you would scratch them in there lightly, or however, and then "buff" them out (for lack of better word) to make it appear old. no?
Hi Abby,

I’m no expert but I can’t see it being that easy. Everyone would be at it
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  #343  
Old 03-20-2018, 10:26 AM
Graham Graham is offline
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Originally Posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
Hi Abby,

I’m no expert but I can’t see it being that easy. Everyone would be at it
Everyone IS at it! Fake jewellery is big business!

Graham
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  #344  
Old 03-20-2018, 10:49 AM
Spider Spider is offline
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Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
Hi Herlock
It wouldn't be too hard to figure out that if you wanted to make engravings in something appear old, or at least obfuscate the matter, you would scratch them in there lightly, or however, and then "buff" them out (for lack of better word) to make it appear old. no?
The 'scratchings' were deemed to be many tens of years old and made with a number of different implements. Under examination with an Electron microscope were found embedded in parts of the 'scratchings', rusted iron particles which were probably from one of the implements. These would have been impossible to have been placed there.
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  #345  
Old 03-20-2018, 11:00 AM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
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And I think that I'm right in saying (I'll happily stand correcting though) that the alleged Maybrick scratches were overlaid by more modern ones.
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  #346  
Old 03-20-2018, 11:21 PM
Spider Spider is offline
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I believe that was the case, one being a possible repairers mark 'H 93' possibly denoting the year 1893, as it wouldn't have been 1993!
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  #347  
Old 03-21-2018, 12:25 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Originally Posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
And I think that I'm right in saying (I'll happily stand correcting though) that the alleged Maybrick scratches were overlaid by more modern ones.
"More modern" as in more recent, which tells us everything about sequence but nothing about age. The scratches could have been made immediately after the inscriptions, possibly as a by-product of the aging/polishing process.
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  #348  
Old 03-21-2018, 12:32 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Originally Posted by Spider View Post
The 'scratchings' were deemed to be many tens of years old and made with a number of different implements. Under examination with an Electron microscope were found embedded in parts of the 'scratchings', rusted iron particles which were probably from one of the implements. These would have been impossible to have been placed there.
It seems to me that they could have been left behind by a corroded implement at any time.
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Last edited by Sam Flynn : 03-21-2018 at 12:53 AM.
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  #349  
Old 03-21-2018, 12:43 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Originally Posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
I’m no expert but I can’t see it being that easy
About as difficult as writing on a piece of aluminium with a rusty nail. Given the difficulty people have with even seeing them, it doesn't seem that the engravings had to be particularly deep.
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  #350  
Old 03-21-2018, 02:29 AM
Graham Graham is offline
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A quick re-read of Dr Wild's report on his SAM investigation of the scratchings shows that he uses the words 'appears to have been' and 'suggests' and 'indicate' and 'seem likely'. In other words, he is exercising an analytical scientist's age-old right to hedge his bets.

Dr Turgoose, in his earlier investigation using an SEM, did not rule out the possibility that it could be a recent forgery. The marks, he said, could have been artificially aged, but added that such a process could be complex.

My wife has attended several courses in jewellery design and making in Birmingham's Jewellery Quarter. These courses included basic engraving and she has a set of, admittedly inexpensive and not great quality, engraving tools. We've both had a go, not on gold but on copper, and it really isn't all that difficult (after a spot of practice) to reproduce your own signature, freehand, or something that looks very much like it.

One other point which I think is mentioned in 'Ripper Diary': until relatively recently, it was as I understand accepted that the Ripper had murdered seven women in the East End. Which begs the question: why are there only five sets on initials on the Watch?

Graham
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