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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Maybrick, James

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  #4261  
Old 02-20-2018, 10:07 AM
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caz caz is offline
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Originally Posted by John Wheat View Post
So we have a man who is a published journalist and a proven bullshiter. The smart money is on Mike having fabricated the diary.
Please don't tell me you have bet money on this, John.

Nooooooo!

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  #4262  
Old 02-20-2018, 12:09 PM
John Wheat John Wheat is offline
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Please don't tell me you have bet money on this, John.

Nooooooo!

Love,

Caz
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No I don't. Not that you've ever actually given a valid and provable reason as to why Mike couldn't have written the diary Caz.
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  #4263  
Old 02-21-2018, 07:26 AM
Hunter Hunter is offline
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...I don't personally believe Anne had nothing to worry about when Mike came out with that particular claim, regardless of her own role in the affair. If he had needed her help to forge the diary two years earlier, and he was now beside himself with grief and rage because she had left him and taken their only child with her, surely she'd have feared it was only a matter of time before his 'unaided' claim was seriously challenged [on the grounds of general incredulity that he could have pulled it off all by himself] and he would then have to admit to having her help with the project.

Even if Anne had nothing to do with its creation, Mike's claim to have written the diary himself would have put her in a very awkward position if people who knew nothing then about his strange relationship with the truth simply accepted it at face value. She had not contradicted Mike's original claim to have got it from Devereux in 1991, so any other story coming out that was incompatible with this would leave her vulnerable unless she could think of some way to maintain Devereux's place in the story by supporting it, and to come over as more credible than Mike...
I mentioned this in Chris Jones' thread, but there was really no reason for her to maintain Devereux's place in the story at that point if Mike was going to unravel things. Up until that time she was not linked publicly to the origins of this photo album. She could have still been in the "Did you Nick it, Mike?" mode at that time and with no sweat off her brow.

In fact, a Battlecrease provenance - and she had to be aware of it - would have been more fortuitous for her and really put a stop to Mike's 'greatest hoaxer' story and prevent him from dragging her into a rapidly deteriorating situation. Instead, she doubles down with this inside the family story that drags her and her poor old Dad deeper into the abyss of this sham. This says a lot about what might have been at stake for her as well as the Battlecrease story itself.
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  #4264  
Old 02-21-2018, 03:25 PM
Iconoclast Iconoclast is offline
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I mentioned this in Chris Jones' thread, but there was really no reason for her to maintain Devereux's place in the story at that point if Mike was going to unravel things. Up until that time she was not linked publicly to the origins of this photo album. She could have still been in the "Did you Nick it, Mike?" mode at that time and with no sweat off her brow.

In fact, a Battlecrease provenance - and she had to be aware of it - would have been more fortuitous for her and really put a stop to Mike's 'greatest hoaxer' story and prevent him from dragging her into a rapidly deteriorating situation. Instead, she doubles down with this inside the family story that drags her and her poor old Dad deeper into the abyss of this sham. This says a lot about what might have been at stake for her as well as the Battlecrease story itself.
Or she could have been simply telling the truth?

We have two truly improbably provenances, both of which entail an astonishig level of coincidence (if the journal were not authentic). Personally, I favour Anne's provenance, mainly because - if it were actually made up - it managed to embody not one but two rather unlikely coincidences (the Formby link and Florrie using the name Graham on her release from gaol).

It is a mark of this ridiculous pantomime that one of these coincidences has to have been one. But both of these provenances mere coincidence? I think not, and I favour the first one to emerge, and that Anne was simply telling the truth.
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  #4265  
Old 02-21-2018, 03:43 PM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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It is a mark of this ridiculous pantomime that one of these coincidences has to have been one. But both of these provenances mere coincidence?
Well if one can be - and you agree that one must be - then they both can be.
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  #4266  
Old 02-22-2018, 05:16 AM
Spider Spider is offline
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I find it interesting should the 'Diary' be a late forgery/hoax, that the originator of the alleged 'Maybrick Watch', (and the markings upon it being 'many tens of years old'), was, all those years earlier also throwing Maybrick's name in the frame. What a coincidence.
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  #4267  
Old 02-22-2018, 05:29 AM
StevenOwl StevenOwl is offline
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I find it interesting should the 'Diary' be a late forgery/hoax, that the originator of the alleged 'Maybrick Watch', (and the markings upon it being 'many tens of years old'), was, all those years earlier also throwing Maybrick's name in the frame. What a coincidence.
I've been thinking about the watch again recently myself. I just can't understand why it gets swept under the carpet and Diary takes centre stage. I mean, it has a more reliable provenance, a more credible person 'brought it market', it has a Maybrick signature which at least appears to match JM's hand, and the scientific tests undertaken so far are less contradictory. If the Diary had never come to light and the watch was the first time Maybrick's name had been linked with the Ripper crimes I wonder where the Jim as Jack discussion would be now?
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  #4268  
Old 02-22-2018, 06:27 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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I've been thinking about the watch again recently myself. I just can't understand why it gets swept under the carpet and Diary takes centre stage. I mean, it has a more reliable provenance, a more credible person 'brought it market', it has a Maybrick signature which at least appears to match JM's hand, and the scientific tests undertaken so far are less contradictory. If the Diary had never come to light and the watch was the first time Maybrick's name had been linked with the Ripper crimes I wonder where the Jim as Jack discussion would be now?
when did the watch first come to light and how?
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  #4269  
Old 02-22-2018, 06:33 AM
StevenOwl StevenOwl is offline
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when did the watch first come to light and how?
From memory, it appeared soon after the story of the Diary broke in the press. As I understand it, Albert Johnson was showing a watch he'd bought around a year earlier to some work colleagues following a discussion they'd previously had about antiques. One of his colleagues noticed scratches on the watch which Albert hadn't noticed before. They examined the scratches further and could make out the name 'Maybrick'. One of AJ's colleagues had read the story about the Diary and said to Albert "I think you've got Jack the Ripper's watch". The rest, as they say, is history.
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  #4270  
Old 02-22-2018, 06:42 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Originally Posted by StevenOwl View Post
From memory, it appeared soon after the story of the Diary broke in the press. As I understand it, Albert Johnson was showing a watch he'd bought around a year earlier to some work colleagues following a discussion they'd previously had about antiques. One of his colleagues noticed scratches on the watch which Albert hadn't noticed before. They examined the scratches further and could make out the name 'Maybrick'. One of AJ's colleagues had read the story about the Diary and said to Albert "I think you've got Jack the Ripper's watch". The rest, as they say, is history.
Thanks Owl
dosnt the timing-right after the diary/maybrick came to light-raise your suspicions?

whats to stop someone, inspired by the diary, to scratch his name and the other stuff (I believe is the initials of the victims?) on it?

also-you really think someone like maybrick would scratch his name on the watch? hes well off enough-could just have his name engraved.
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