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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Bury, W.H.

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  #91  
Old 12-02-2017, 02:45 PM
johns johns is offline
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Hi Wyatt

I've only just seen this. Nice website I must say.

John
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  #92  
Old 12-03-2017, 07:33 AM
curious curious is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyatt Earp View Post
If you're still interested in reading the article, a slightly improved version ("The Bury ID") is available at http://www.williambury.org (it's essentially the same article, I just added a few remarks and tried to improve the writing here and there).
Thanks, Wyatt. I really enjoyed it.

curious
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  #93  
Old 12-04-2017, 09:14 AM
Wyatt Earp Wyatt Earp is offline
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Thanks, guys. By the way, if anyone has an interest in contributing Bury-related material to the website, pm me and let me know. It would have to be material where copyright wouldn't be a problem. I'm not familiar with the U.K. copyright laws nor how things could be complicated by the website and I being in the U.S., which is why for the time being I've steered clear of using the old newspaper images on the site (the image of Bury on the front page is supposed to be a public domain image). I could put guest posts, interviews, photos, etc. on the site if people are interested in contributing material.
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  #94  
Old 02-15-2018, 03:44 PM
Wyatt Earp Wyatt Earp is offline
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I found this in West Yorkshire, England, Prison Records, 1801-1914. I’m not good with Victorian handwriting, so bear with me. I don’t know if this is news to anybody or not, but I didn’t see it mentioned in the books by Beadle or Macpherson.

Register no: 2795
Name: William Henry Bury
Date of committal: May 23, 1884
Place of committal: Dewsbury WR
Offense: Vagrancy?
(Looks like an “so” or “do.” I’m not familiar with prison record abbreviations. Further up the page, another guy’s offense is “vagrancy,” and then there are a bunch of guys beneath him, including Bury, with this abbreviation in the offense column, so I’m guessing that Bury’s offense was vagrancy as well.)
Sentence: 14 days tth
Education: looks like “Mp”
Age: 25
(Beadle gives DOB as 5/25/59, Macpherson as 11/20/59, so according to their dates Bury should still have been 24 at the time of committal, but this is very close.)
Height: 5’2” (Bury was 5’3”—very close.)
Hair: brown (Matches.)
Occupation: Warehouseman (Matches—according to Macpherson, Bury was working at Osbourne’s warehouse about that time.)
Physical characteristics: cut on forehead and on right side of neck
Religion: Church
Place of birth: Stourbridge (Matches.)
Previous convictions: None
Date of discharge: June 5, 1884

If this is our Bury, then this would constitute his first conviction and evidence that he spent a couple of weeks in the can in 1884.
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Last edited by Wyatt Earp : 02-15-2018 at 03:48 PM.
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  #95  
Old 02-16-2018, 01:00 PM
Pcdunn Pcdunn is offline
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Wyatt, I think "do." was an abbreviation in old records for "ditto"-- meaning the same as above, so they probably all were in on the same offense.
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  #96  
Old 02-18-2018, 08:19 PM
phantom phantom is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyatt Earp View Post
I found this in West Yorkshire, England, Prison Records, 1801-1914. I’m not good with Victorian handwriting, so bear with me. I don’t know if this is news to anybody or not, but I didn’t see it mentioned in the books by Beadle or Macpherson.

Register no: 2795
Name: William Henry Bury
Date of committal: May 23, 1884
Place of committal: Dewsbury WR
Offense: Vagrancy?
(Looks like an “so” or “do.” I’m not familiar with prison record abbreviations. Further up the page, another guy’s offense is “vagrancy,” and then there are a bunch of guys beneath him, including Bury, with this abbreviation in the offense column, so I’m guessing that Bury’s offense was vagrancy as well.)
Sentence: 14 days tth
Education: looks like “Mp”
Age: 25
(Beadle gives DOB as 5/25/59, Macpherson as 11/20/59, so according to their dates Bury should still have been 24 at the time of committal, but this is very close.)
Height: 5’2” (Bury was 5’3”—very close.)
Hair: brown (Matches.)
Occupation: Warehouseman (Matches—according to Macpherson, Bury was working at Osbourne’s warehouse about that time.)
Physical characteristics: cut on forehead and on right side of neck
Religion: Church
Place of birth: Stourbridge (Matches.)
Previous convictions: None
Date of discharge: June 5, 1884

If this is our Bury, then this would constitute his first conviction and evidence that he spent a couple of weeks in the can in 1884.
Yeah I agree with PC Dunn below. Nice find!
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  #97  
Old 02-19-2018, 11:54 AM
johns johns is offline
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Excellent discovery

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  #98  
Old 02-19-2018, 04:30 PM
Wyatt Earp Wyatt Earp is offline
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Thank you Pcdunn, phantom and johns. Regarding the age discrepancy, I’m not sure if they would have recorded his age coming in or going out. If it was coming in, Bury would have been within two days of his 25th birthday (per the birth certificate information posted by johns in an earlier thread), and so he could have fudged and simply said 25. If it was going out, then Bury would have turned 25 by then, and there would be no discrepancy. In any event, it looks like Bury spent his 25th birthday in jail.
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  #99  
Old 06-07-2018, 11:53 AM
Wyatt Earp Wyatt Earp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyatt Earp View Post
Register no: 2795
Name: William Henry Bury
Date of committal: May 23, 1884
Place of committal: Dewsbury WR
Offense: Vagrancy?
(Looks like an “so” or “do.” I’m not familiar with prison record abbreviations. Further up the page, another guy’s offense is “vagrancy,” and then there are a bunch of guys beneath him, including Bury, with this abbreviation in the offense column, so I’m guessing that Bury’s offense was vagrancy as well.)
Sentence: 14 days tth
Education: looks like “Mp”
Age: 25
(Beadle gives DOB as 5/25/59, Macpherson as 11/20/59, so according to their dates Bury should still have been 24 at the time of committal, but this is very close.)
Height: 5’2” (Bury was 5’3”—very close.)
Hair: brown (Matches.)
Occupation: Warehouseman (Matches—according to Macpherson, Bury was working at Osbourne’s warehouse about that time.)
Physical characteristics: cut on forehead and on right side of neck
Religion: Church
Place of birth: Stourbridge (Matches.)
Previous convictions: None
Date of discharge: June 5, 1884
A few notes about the prison record—

The place of committal is given as “Dewsbury WR.” In the first post of this thread http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=129, johns provided a newspaper article which states that Bury “is said for some time to have been at Dewsbury.”

In their books about Bury, Beadle (p.50) and Macpherson (p.19) both give Bury’s height as 5’3½”, but they don’t provide their sources for that (that said, the Dundee Courier does give Bury’s height as 5’3½”). The prison record, however, is providing an official measurement of 5’2”. It doesn’t seem very likely that Bury would have grown an inch and a half after his twenty-fifth birthday, so there’s a conflict here. I’ve been looking through some old newspapers, and I’ve come across something which appears to reconcile the two measurements. According to the March 19 Dundee Advertiser, Bury was 5’3½” “in his boots.” In the August 1888 portrait of the Burys, he is shown wearing boots with some pretty good heels, so that sounds about right. Interestingly, the February 12 Aberdeen Journal does give Bury’s height as 5’2”. James Berry gives Bury’s height as 5’3”, but he may have been giving an “in his shoes” height. In any event, I’ve updated the Bury website in a few spots to make it clear that the 5’3½” I’m giving is a “boots” height (one of the nice things about having your work on your own website is that you can make immediate edits).

The March 30 Dundee People’s Journal gives Bury’s religion as Episcopalian. The prison record gives Bury’s religion as “Church.” Would “Church” be an abbreviation for “Church of England”?
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  #100  
Old 06-07-2018, 12:31 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyatt Earp View Post
A few notes about the prison record—

The place of committal is given as “Dewsbury WR.” In the first post of this thread http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=129, johns provided a newspaper article which states that Bury “is said for some time to have been at Dewsbury.”

In their books about Bury, Beadle (p.50) and Macpherson (p.19) both give Bury’s height as 5’3½”, but they don’t provide their sources for that (that said, the Dundee Courier does give Bury’s height as 5’3½”). The prison record, however, is providing an official measurement of 5’2”. It doesn’t seem very likely that Bury would have grown an inch and a half after his twenty-fifth birthday, so there’s a conflict here. I’ve been looking through some old newspapers, and I’ve come across something which appears to reconcile the two measurements. According to the March 19 Dundee Advertiser, Bury was 5’3½” “in his boots.” In the August 1888 portrait of the Burys, he is shown wearing boots with some pretty good heels, so that sounds about right. Interestingly, the February 12 Aberdeen Journal does give Bury’s height as 5’2”. James Berry gives Bury’s height as 5’3”, but he may have been giving an “in his shoes” height. In any event, I’ve updated the Bury website in a few spots to make it clear that the 5’3½” I’m giving is a “boots” height (one of the nice things about having your work on your own website is that you can make immediate edits).

The March 30 Dundee People’s Journal gives Bury’s religion as Episcopalian. The prison record gives Bury’s religion as “Church.” Would “Church” be an abbreviation for “Church of England”?
awesome wyatt.

any way you could display the portrait of the burys here? where is it from? ive never heard of it before.
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but a dream within a dream?"

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quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

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