Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Main
   

Introduction
Victims
Suspects
Witnesses
Ripper Letters
Police Officials
Official Documents
Press Reports
Victorian London
Message Boards
Ripper Media
Authors
Dissertations
Timelines
Games & Diversions
Photo Archive
Ripper Wiki
Casebook Examiner
Ripper Podcast
About the Casebook

Most Recent Posts:
Maybrick, James: Acquiring A Victorian Diary - by Henry Flower 1 hour and 8 minutes ago.
Maybrick, James: Acquiring A Victorian Diary - by rjpalmer 1 hour and 14 minutes ago.
Maybrick, James: Acquiring A Victorian Diary - by David Orsam 1 hour and 20 minutes ago.
Maybrick, James: Acquiring A Victorian Diary - by David Orsam 1 hour and 24 minutes ago.
Maybrick, James: Acquiring A Victorian Diary - by David Orsam 1 hour and 26 minutes ago.
Maybrick, James: Acquiring A Victorian Diary - by David Orsam 2 hours ago.

Most Popular Threads:
Maybrick, James: Acquiring A Victorian Diary - (23 posts)
Bury, W.H.: Mock trial for Bury Feb 3 - (11 posts)
General Suspect Discussion: RE : Joseph Issacs - (7 posts)
A6 Murders: A6 Rebooted - (6 posts)
Annie Chapman: Can someone explain to me 'shabby gentile?' - (3 posts)
Shades of Whitechapel: Cecil Hotel, Richard Raminez, Jack Unterweger - (3 posts)

Wiki Updates:
Robert Sagar
Edit: Chris
May 9, 2015, 12:32 am
Online newspaper archives
Edit: Chris
Nov 26, 2014, 10:25 am
Joseph Lawende
Edit: Chris
Mar 9, 2014, 10:12 am
Miscellaneous research resources
Edit: Chris
Feb 13, 2014, 9:28 am
Charles Cross
Edit: John Bennett
Sep 4, 2013, 8:20 pm

Most Recent Blogs:
Mike Covell: A DECADE IN THE MAKING.
February 19, 2016, 11:12 am.
Chris George: RipperCon in Baltimore, April 8-10, 2016
February 10, 2016, 2:55 pm.
Mike Covell: Hull Prison Visit
October 10, 2015, 8:04 am.
Mike Covell: NEW ADVENTURES IN RESEARCH
August 9, 2015, 3:10 am.
Mike Covell: UPDDATES FOR THE PAST 11 MONTHS
November 14, 2014, 10:02 am.
Mike Covell: Mike’s Book Releases
March 17, 2014, 3:18 am.

Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Hutchinson, George

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #181  
Old 12-16-2017, 01:59 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,986
Default

Victorian Miner's Hobnail Boots...


https://victoriancollections.net.au/...cdd1172c081d39

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael W Richards View Post
.......the nails are embedded deeper in the leather, or the head is worn away.
The head is worn away Michael, which is why this exchange is part of the inquest record...
[Coroner] Then you think that his boots were down at heels ?
[Cox] He made no noise.

Don't you remember that the police fastened strips of rubber to the sole of their boots so they would make no noise?
Why do you think that is Michael?
__________________
Regards, Jon S.

Last edited by Wickerman : 12-16-2017 at 02:01 PM.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #182  
Old 12-16-2017, 02:48 PM
Robert St Devil Robert St Devil is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: North Kilttown, Scotland
Posts: 767
Default

I wasn't asking to prove you wrong, Jon, I was simply asking. For some reason, you zeroed in on my 2nd question, one that I would have left out of my post except I read your post #4, The Star hits the streets at 4 or 5 pm on the 12th with a description of Cox's suspect. I noticed the only similarity between their suspects is the man walked softly. I'm not pro or anti Hutch, just trying to determine if he's telling the truth.

If he is telling the truth, then we have two witnesses who noticed the man accompanying Mary walked softly, and I wondered how commonplace it would have been for Mary to have met two men with these type shoes within a few hours considering most of the debates on the forum usually come back to everyone wearing heavy clodded footwear during this period. Hell, maybe it's the same guy, maybe Cox is a liar, &c.

I don't personally feel like Hutch had anything to do with her murder or being Jack the Ripper. No other prior sighting made Jack come forward (unless you blv the Cross theory), so I don't think Lewis' vague description of a man wearing a hat would have compelled him to seek out and deceive the police.
__________________
there,s nothing new, only the unexplored
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #183  
Old 12-16-2017, 05:25 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,986
Default

Hi Robert.

My apologies, on reflection it might be fair to admit I unjustly focused on that one question of yours.

It's just that we've been down that road before, the time of Hutch's sighting at "two o'clock", a "respectably dressed man", who "approached the victim", plus a few other minor details can be read in the Saturday press. Which convinced one member that she had solved the problem - Hutchinson compiled his story from bits & pieces he gleaned from the Saturday press.

A right load of codswallop, to put it bluntly. Your remark just struck a cord, if you get what I mean.
Sorry about that.
__________________
Regards, Jon S.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #184  
Old 12-17-2017, 01:35 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
Casebook Supporter
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wales
Posts: 9,034
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wickerman View Post
"Early on Friday morning Bowyer saw a man, who's description tallies with that of the supposed murderer. Bowyer has, he says, described this man to Inspector Abberline and Inspector Reid."
Echo, 14 Nov. 1888.

Corroboration exists for parts of Hutchinson's story.
Does Bowyer's description survive? He could have been describing Blotchy for all I know.
__________________
Kind regards, Sam Flynn

"Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #185  
Old 12-17-2017, 05:34 AM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,986
Default

The "supposed murderer", following Hutchinson's appearance at Commercial st. on the 12th was Astrachan, as widely published in the press on the 13th & 14th.

Bowyer's story appeared on the 14th, his account also mentioned "three o'clock" several times, as the time of his sighting. And, that if he had realized this was the killer "I reckon he wouldn't have got off", which if taken as a euphemism must imply Bowyer would have done him over, so to speak.

There are two separate accounts of Bowyer saying he last saw Kelly on Wednesday, one at the inquest, one in the press. Which suggests he didn't see Kelly with this man at 3:00 on Friday morning, it was just the man by himself. Which in turn must imply this man was leaving the court, as Kelly was seen accompanying both her clients (Blotchy & Astrachan) as they arrived that night. But Bowyer saw this man alone - so the man was leaving.

Not only was Blotchy not the "supposed murderer" as described by the press on the 13th & 14th, having him leave at 3:00 after arriving about 11:45 is far too long a time.
Whereas, according to Hutchinson his suspect only arrived shortly after 2:00, which makes Astrachan the most likely person seen by Bowyer, as Astrachan was indisputably the "supposed murderer" as widely assumed on the day this report was published in the press.
__________________
Regards, Jon S.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #186  
Old 12-17-2017, 05:44 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,509
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wickerman View Post
The "supposed murderer", following Hutchinson's appearance at Commercial st. on the 12th was Astrachan, as widely published in the press on the 13th & 14th.

Bowyer's story appeared on the 14th, his account also mentioned "three o'clock" several times, as the time of his sighting. And, that if he had realized this was the killer "I reckon he wouldn't have got off", which if taken as a euphemism must imply Bowyer would have done him over, so to speak.

There are two separate accounts of Bowyer saying he last saw Kelly on Wednesday, one at the inquest, one in the press. Which suggests he didn't see Kelly with this man at 3:00 on Friday morning, it was just the man by himself. Which in turn must imply this man was leaving the court, as Kelly was seen accompanying both her clients (Blotchy & Astrachan) as they arrived that night. But Bowyer saw this man alone - so the man was leaving.

Not only was Blotchy not the "supposed murderer" as described by the press on the 13th & 14th, having him leave at 3:00 after arriving about 11:45 is far too long a time.
Whereas, according to Hutchinson his suspect only arrived shortly after 2:00, which makes Astrachan the most likely person seen by Bowyer, as Astrachan was indisputably the "supposed murderer" as widely assumed on the day this report was published in the press.
Do you do magic tricks too?
__________________
"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #187  
Old 12-17-2017, 05:45 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,509
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by c.d. View Post
"And, if you can think of this then why couldn't anyone else, like a detective?"

Nice one, Wick. One of the best comments ever on a Hutchinson thread (or any other thread for that matter). Pretty much puts the whole Hutch thing in perspective.

c.d.
Your easily impressed.
__________________
"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #188  
Old 12-17-2017, 06:49 AM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,986
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
Do you do magic tricks too?
Ever think before you speak?
__________________
Regards, Jon S.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #189  
Old 12-17-2017, 07:03 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,509
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wickerman View Post
Ever think before you speak?
Yup. And you obviously think too much before you do
__________________
"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #190  
Old 12-17-2017, 07:20 AM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is online now
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,516
Default

Jon, I don't suppose you have a link to Bowyer's report of seeing the man, do you? Seems a bit fishy that he not only discovered the body but placed himself at the scene around the time of death, too. Why isn't he suspect no.1?
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.