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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Doctors and Coroners

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  #31  
Old 12-12-2017, 10:05 AM
Robert St Devil Robert St Devil is offline
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Hi Sam. Would you consider body type playing a factor..? Judging by the photos on her profile page, Catherine is obviously a thin (eg skinny) woman. I don't see any excess flesh around her midsection that could be cut away into 3,4,5 flaps (as possibly compared to Annie and/or Mary Jane).
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  #32  
Old 12-12-2017, 10:39 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Hi Sam. Would you consider body type playing a factor..? Judging by the photos on her profile page, Catherine is obviously a thin (eg skinny) woman. I don't see any excess flesh around her midsection that could be cut away into 3,4,5 flaps (as possibly compared to Annie and/or Mary Jane).
I don't think that the Ripper was removing excess flesh from Annie Chapman; he was just removing flesh. He could have taken exactly the same approach with Eddowes, had he chosen to do so.

Indeed, one might speculate that inflicting a single, deep slash on so skinny a woman ran a greater risk of immediately damaging the underlying viscera (i.e. puncturing the stomach and/or intestines) and creating an unwanted mess from the outset, so perhaps a three-flap dissection would have been a "safer" approach in Eddowes' case as well, if the killer had more time.
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  #33  
Old 12-12-2017, 11:13 AM
Robert St Devil Robert St Devil is offline
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Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
I don't think that the Ripper was removing excess flesh from Annie Chapman; he was just removing flesh. He could have taken exactly the same approach with Eddowes, had he chosen to do so.

Indeed, one might speculate that inflicting a single, deep slash on so skinny a woman ran a greater risk of immediately damaging the underlying viscera (i.e. puncturing the stomach and/or intestines) and creating an unwanted mess from the outset, so perhaps a three-flap dissection would have been a "safer" approach in Eddowes' case as well, if the killer had more time.
I think he may have cut her colon with that bisecting cut, creating the unwanted mess.
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  #34  
Old 12-12-2017, 02:20 PM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
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I think he may have cut her colon with that bisecting cut, creating the unwanted mess.
Not something someone skilled enough to create the impression he had medical grade surgical skills would likely do...as was assumed of Annies killer. And only Annies killer. The premise that they were looking for a surgically trained man lasted for the first few weeks after Annies murder.

And the quote that " there were no meaningless cuts" should address the idea that there were any Josh.
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  #35  
Old 12-12-2017, 02:27 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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I think he may have cut her colon with that bisecting cut, creating the unwanted mess.
The colon in general lies rather deep, and that part of her colon that was cut sits well away from the midline and to the left, whereas Eddowes' wound stayed central then veered to the right after looping round the navel. Her colon was cut after the midline incision to open her abdomen, probably in tandem with, or shortly after, the removal of her uterus.
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  #36  
Old 12-12-2017, 04:02 PM
Robert St Devil Robert St Devil is offline
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I don't know much about the condition of the colon, only that it was about 2 ft. long. I considered that he may have cut (by accident?) the part of the colon that extends from one side of the body to the other side when he made his midsection cut. I remember that there was a report of the removed intestines being covered in feculent matter. This suggests 2 better likelihoods: 1) he cut the colon prior to removing the intestines from the body, and feces from the colon spilled out onto them; or, 2) he removed the intestines and placed them above her shoulder, cut the colon out of her body, and dumped the feces from the colon onto the intestines.
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  #37  
Old 12-13-2017, 12:13 AM
DJA DJA is offline
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The colon in general lies rather deep, and that part of her colon that was cut sits well away from the midline and to the left, whereas Eddowes' wound stayed central then veered to the right after looping round the navel. Her colon was cut after the midline incision to open her abdomen, probably in tandem with, or shortly after, the removal of her uterus.
Do you reckon the colon might have been damaged when Jack was removing the small intestines!

Given Chapman had TB of the lungs and brain,it may have also caused Endometritis in her uterus.
As Jack had a go at removing her head,does anyone suspect Jack might have known a fair bit about her condition?
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  #38  
Old 12-13-2017, 12:24 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Originally Posted by Robert St Devil View Post
I don't know much about the condition of the colon, only that it was about 2 ft. long. I considered that he may have cut (by accident?) the part of the colon that extends from one side of the body to the other side when he made his midsection cut. I remember that there was a report of the removed intestines being covered in feculent matter. This suggests 2 better likelihoods: 1) he cut the colon prior to removing the intestines from the body, and feces from the colon spilled out onto them; or, 2) he removed the intestines and placed them above her shoulder, cut the colon out of her body, and dumped the feces from the colon onto the intestines.
The cut colon segment was from the descending colon on the left of the body. The intestines smeared over with faecal matter were the small intestines which had been pulled out of the body prior to the organs being removed.
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  #39  
Old 12-13-2017, 12:50 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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[quote=DJA;437019]Do you reckon the colon might have been damaged when Jack was removing the small intestines!/QUOTE]
Not that part of the colon which was cut out, as it lies at the far end of the alimentary tract to the innards that were pulled out and stretched across her body. Furthermore, the colon is too thick to tear accidentally.
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  #40  
Old 12-13-2017, 01:18 AM
DJA DJA is offline
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[quote=Sam Flynn;437023]
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJA View Post
Do you reckon the colon might have been damaged when Jack was removing the small intestines!/QUOTE]
Not that part of the colon which was cut out, as it lies at the far end of the alimentary tract to the innards that were pulled out and stretched across her body. Furthermore, the colon is too thick to tear accidentally.
Got rather confused as to which victim was being discussed.

The descending colon taken out of Eddowes would have been cut when extracting the kidney.
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