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  #11  
Old 12-07-2017, 06:51 PM
RockySullivan RockySullivan is online now
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Well Abby for one the timeline certainly aligns with LISK but the frequency could be quite out of whack. The 3 Bittrolff victims were killed within like a month or two, it's almost like a month long murder spree (and then he goes dormant for 20 years?). LISK is one or two victims a year, sometimes long gaps. But its the same as the AC killer 4 in one month. Bittrolff apparently posed his victims and then bashed their skulls in. Like literally. That's pretty different from LISK..except in the case of Asian Male who also had blunt force trauma. LISK strangles and dismembers then wraps victims in plastic or garbage bags and the separates their heads, torsos and limbs in order to hinder identification. This is where Manorville comes into play, the killer would dump the torso in Manorville then the parts way out on Ocean Parkway 40 miles away. Remind you of anyone?
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Old 12-07-2017, 06:59 PM
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Bittrolff took the one shoe and the AC Killer took the shoes. Also remember the AC lead homicide detective told the news at the time he knew the AC and LISK killings were linked, that's a fact. The last AC victim (and the one who was staying on LI just before her death) grew up like 3 blocks away from where Bittrolff grew up so they likely went to elementary school together. But how could Bittrolff have been in Atlantic City for the month span when all the girls were killed? His family says he was home at the time. I think it's unlikely Bittrolff could be LISK and not the AC Killer, it's all or nothing. And believe me I can make a more convincing case for Bittrolff as LISK than anyone. Still it's not enough to say for certain.

There are many aspects to the case and a lot of little dead end or lost trails. For one Bittrolff's family says he has no kind of connection to NYC as this case so clearly does but that doesn't mean Bittrolff isn't one of the "mongers" who drive all over long island, queens, brooklyn and manhattan looking for sex workers. I suspect he probably is. But I have heard Bittrolff's business partner was seeing Colleen McNamee.

Bittrolff did butcher animals in his shed, and there was a news story from the time of the arrest about a neighbor who was walking the dog and went over to say hi to John Bittrolff. The dog was barking and barking and barking and then Bittrolff came out of the shed with blood over his pants and said he was butchering an animal. I almost wonder if that was a dismemberment and he was that "in plain sight" about it.

But yes the LISK's graveyard is in Manorville close to where Bittrolff lived which is also too extraordinary. Personally I'm not convinced AC is the same killer either, but the detective was. I do have no doubt that all the bodies and parts dumped on Ocean Parkway and Manorville are the work of one SK.
Thanks rocky
Maybe it’s not enough beyond a reasonable doubt in a court, but for me it’s more than enough. He’s the LISK it’s just a matter of how many victims turn out to be his. He’s already a suspect in another woman’s murder and a SUSPECT in one of the LISK murders.

TWo manorville LISK victims where he lived also had body parts near the original four victims found in gilgo beach.

It’s only a matter of time before they link it all.


But let me ask you something I put in my original post. Shannon GILBERT went missing and a search ensued in between the original four Gilgo beach victims.
So he’s dumping two additional victims next to the original two while the search for Shannon has already started? That’s pretty brazen no? Talk about doing things in plain sight.
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  #13  
Old 12-07-2017, 07:29 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Well Abby for one the timeline certainly aligns with LISK but the frequency could be quite out of whack. The 3 Bittrolff victims were killed within like a month or two, it's almost like a month long murder spree (and then he goes dormant for 20 years?). LISK is one or two victims a year, sometimes long gaps. But its the same as the AC killer 4 in one month. Bittrolff apparently posed his victims and then bashed their skulls in. Like literally. That's pretty different from LISK..except in the case of Asian Male who also had blunt force trauma. LISK strangles and dismembers then wraps victims in plastic or garbage bags and the separates their heads, torsos and limbs in order to hinder identification. This is where Manorville comes into play, the killer would dump the torso in Manorville then the parts way out on Ocean Parkway 40 miles away. Remind you of anyone?
Hi rocky
Bitrolffs two victims he was convicted and the third he’s suspected of where in 93 and 94.
Then we have Jane doe #7 in 96.
Then we have peaches/Jane doe #3 and baby doe remains found in 97.
Then Jane doe #6 of manorville in 2000
Then Jessica Taylor of manorville/gilgo beach remains in 2003.
Then the four originally found IDed on gilgo that span 2007-2010.

These are all confirmed LISK victims.

The biggest gap is like three years and I’m not even counting the Asian transvestite or other possible Lisk victims.

I’m not sure who or when the AC victims you are talking about, but if they are separate from who I’ve already listed, you’ve got them in there two.

Also, two other possible victims are around 2013 and bitrolff is charged in 2014 and nothing since.
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"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

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  #14  
Old 12-07-2017, 10:16 PM
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Maybe itís not enough beyond a reasonable doubt in a court, but for me itís more than enough. Heís the LISK itís just a matter of how many victims turn out to be his. Heís already a suspect in another womanís murder and a SUSPECT in one of the LISK murders.
If he turns out not to have committed ALL of the LISK murders, then he's A Long Island serial killer, and there's at least one more out there. I hope that's not the case.
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  #15  
Old 12-07-2017, 11:31 PM
RockySullivan RockySullivan is online now
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Abby look at the time span of the three murders:
Rita Tangredi
Tangredi was found dead on November 2, 1993 in Suffolk County, New York. Tangredi lived in East Patchogue and was known by police to be a prostitute.[9]
Colleen McNamee
McNamee's body found on January 30, 1994 in Suffolk County, New York. Believed by authorities to be a prostitute, she was beaten, strangled to death and left naked in the woods, near the William Floyd Parkway in Shirley, New York.[10][11]
Sandra Costilla
Costilla's body was found on November 20, 1993 in North Sea, New York. She hasn't been listed as a prostitute by investigators yet, however detectives have said that Costilla led a "similar lifestyle".[12]
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  #16  
Old 12-07-2017, 11:36 PM
RockySullivan RockySullivan is online now
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Thanks rocky
Maybe itís not enough beyond a reasonable doubt in a court, but for me itís more than enough. Heís the LISK itís just a matter of how many victims turn out to be his. Heís already a suspect in another womanís murder and a SUSPECT in one of the LISK murders.

TWo manorville LISK victims where he lived also had body parts near the original four victims found in gilgo beach.

Itís only a matter of time before they link it all.
Yes Manorville and Gilgo is obviously one killer. But there were also 3 unidentified males found in Manorville who also undoubtedly the work of LISK who are absent from any coverage of the case
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  #17  
Old 12-08-2017, 04:49 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Yes Manorville and Gilgo is obviously one killer. But there were also 3 unidentified males found in Manorville who also undoubtedly the work of LISK who are absent from any coverage of the case
Wtf? I never heard of those.
Can you please explain as well as with the AC victims.
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  #18  
Old 12-08-2017, 01:02 PM
RockySullivan RockySullivan is online now
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Wtf? I never heard of those.
Can you please explain as well as with the AC victims.
Sure Abby:

4 Bodies Leave Hamlet On Edge

By *JULIA C. MEAD*DEC. 14, 2003*
nytimes.com | Dec. 14, 2003
FOR as long as some longtime residents could remember, every few years a hunter or hiker would stumble across human remains left to decompose in the vast pine barrens surrounding this still-rural hamlet. They said they just shrugged it off, thinking nothing more than that their woods had replaced the Meadowlands as the mob's preferred dumping ground.
''They've been finding bodies out here every once in a while since I was a kid,'' said Bob Elliott, a Manorville resident for all of his 47 years and the owner of the Maples, a local tavern favored by the biker crowd. ''I think they're coming from the city. One body they found years ago had healed bullet wounds. That guy was used to it.''
But the rumor mill has been churning hard over the past month, since hunters found the fourth body to turn up in the area in three years. Worried residents now ban their children from the woods and groan that Manorville is developing an unsavory reputation.
Some here also speculate about a possible serial killer in their midst. But most of the crowd at Maples the other day agreed that if a local had done any of the killings, no body would ever have been found. A longtime local, they said, would know the tens of thousands of wooded and swampy acres around Manorville well enough to dispose of a body for good.
''This is still country,'' said John Hingle, a 30-year local resident interviewed at Maples, which is on Mill Road, a lonely, winding back road a five-minute drive from where two of the bodies were found. ''You make one wrong turn and you're lost. Maybe whoever did this knew the area well enough to dump a body without getting caught, but he's not from here.''
Subdivisions have begun sprouting up outside the protected core area of the Long Island pine barrens, and pockets of Manorville have begun to look like the rest of Long Island. But restrictions on construction have helped to preserve the hamlet as a place of farm fields, big old barns, rusty pickup trucks, horse pastures and long winding roads that only seem to go deeper into the woods.
Mr. Hingle and a second patron who would give only his first name, Tracy, said they believed there could be more bodies out there. ''There are still spots out here where a person only walks every year or two,'' said Tracy, who has lived here for 10 years. Mr. Hingle added: ''Those four were easy finds because they were each right off a road.''
The rumors flourish in the absence of much official information. The police have identified none of the four bodies, and three of them have yet to be officially ruled homicide victims because the exact causes of death are unknown. Lt. Jack Fitzpatrick, head of Suffolk County's homicide squad, said that the detectives continue to investigate all the cases as if they were homicides, and that they are sifting through a national database of missing persons.
The toll:
On Nov. 19, 2000, three hunters walking in the woods about a half-mile west of Halsey Manor Road, north of the Long Island Expressway, discovered plastic trash bags containing human remains. They were later determined to be those of a female who died several weeks before. She was nude, her body was chopped into pieces and her head, hands and right foot were missing. A forensic exam determined she was a brunette, white or Hispanic, no more than 5-foot-5 or 125 pounds, and between 35 and 40 years old.
Four days later, hunters found a second body just inside the tree line on the south side of the expressway between exits 68 and 69. That body was male, intact and clothed. Crushed neck bones were ''not accidental,'' Lieutenant Fitzpatrick said. The victim had been dead for about three weeks, was white or Hispanic, 20 to 30 years old, about 5-foot-6 and 130 to 150 pounds, and had black hair, he said.
On July 26, 2003, a woman walking her dog, again near Halsey Manor Road and the expressway, found a second female body -- also white or Hispanic, no taller than 5-foot-5 and under 125 pounds -- an estimated week after she died. She was between 20 and 30 years old. Unlike the first female body, this one was left in the open, on a paved access road to a sump. But like the first female, this victim was nude, decapitated and had her hands chopped off. Detectives later released photos of part of a wing tattoo near her right kidney and a purple and silver decal on one of her toenails.
On Nov. 10, mushroom pickers found the body of a male, intact but in an advanced stage of decomposition. Like the first male, this one was also dumped just south of the expressway, but 11 miles east of the first. The victim was Caucasian, 35 to 50 years old, about 5-foot-6 and had died up to four months earlier.
Throwing cold water on the serial killer theory, Lieutenant Fitzpatrick said the two female victims were similar only in that their heads and hands were removed, not enough to link them. The only connection between the two males was that both were found south of the expressway, hardly significant since they were far apart, he added.
The expressway creates ''easy access'' for anyone looking to dump a body, he said, and the Manorville stretch is the first densely wooded area along the expressway east of the city. ''All of that is more indicative of someone driving out here, dumping the body quickly and leaving,'' he said. ''It's entirely possible that none of the victims was killed in Suffolk.''
Sandy Brown, owner of a video shop in the King Kullen shopping center on Route 111, said the police have furnished too few details to put residents' minds at ease. ''I think they're just being dumped here, not killed here,'' Ms. Brown said. ''I don't believe there's a deranged serial killer living around here, but you never know.''
She said some of her customers, particularly newcomers to the rapidly developing area, are panicked. She said that many who live near the shopping center, a popular stop for travelers to or from the Hamptons, have stopped their children from walking through the woods to reach the shops there.
A resident of Halsey Manor Road, who asked that her name not be published to protect her three small children, said she was ''creeped out'' to hear that two bodies had been found not far from her house, which is surrounded by woods.
''It's horrible to think that it's happening so close by,'' she said. ''But moms in Manorville aren't dropping yet, so I'm not panicking.'' She said that, since her house is isolated, she doesn't permit her children to roam, only to play in the fenced-in backyard.
She said the neighborhood is so far off the beaten path that motorists frequently knock on her door looking for directions. ''These two girls were driving around lost for so long before they found my house that they were completely hysterical and panicked,'' she recalled. ''I think you'd have to know the area to find the places where these bodies were dumped and get out of here without getting lost.''
Rich Meyer, who manages the Michelangelo pizzeria across Route 111 from the shopping center and lives next door, wondered why the police have not linked a fifth find, of a head with a bullet wound found in January, to the Manorville cases. Lieutenant Fitzpatrick said the head was found at Twin Ponds in Center Moriches, about 10 miles southwest of the fourth Manorville body. He said it has no connection to the other bodies but declined to say why.
Terry MacPherson, who works at the Manorville Florist and nursery on Route 111, said that 30 years ago the ''big joke'' among locals was that James R. Hoffa Sr., the Teamsters president who went missing in 1975, was probably somewhere in the pine barrens.
''But now people aren't joking,'' she said. ''They want to know what's going on. It's unnerving to think that you never know what's going to be found out here.''
© 2017 The New York Times Company

That was from 2003 remember. The second female torso would eventually be identified as Jessica Taylor and parts from both torsos would be found on OP. The first male and female were dumped and found within days of each other in 2000 and the male found in 2003 four months after Jessica Taylor had been there for months. There was a third unidentified male found in 2012. Then look at the disposal method for the head found in the pond mentioned at the end of the article. The victim turned out to be a trans sex workers who lived in the same part of Brooklyn as Jessica Taylor and was killed the year before. His torso was all the way on Rockaway Beach and his limbs were somewhere off the LIE. He had a gunshot wound to to the head though and was last seen getting into a red bmw with his secret friend, a Hispanic looking male. Aside from the gunshot, that case matches LISK's signature too closesly and he was a big dude so it's likely the killer wasn't ableo strangle him.

Then the other trans victim is the Asian Male who I am certain is 16 year old Brooklyn kid Tirrel Santiago who went by the name Maya. http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...go_tirrel.html

LISK kills male and female sex workers, were the 3 unidentified male Manorville victims trans as well?

AC=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastbound_Strangler
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  #19  
Old 12-08-2017, 01:28 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Sure Abby:

4 Bodies Leave Hamlet On Edge

By *JULIA C. MEAD*DEC. 14, 2003*
nytimes.com | Dec. 14, 2003
FOR as long as some longtime residents could remember, every few years a hunter or hiker would stumble across human remains left to decompose in the vast pine barrens surrounding this still-rural hamlet. They said they just shrugged it off, thinking nothing more than that their woods had replaced the Meadowlands as the mob's preferred dumping ground.
''They've been finding bodies out here every once in a while since I was a kid,'' said Bob Elliott, a Manorville resident for all of his 47 years and the owner of the Maples, a local tavern favored by the biker crowd. ''I think they're coming from the city. One body they found years ago had healed bullet wounds. That guy was used to it.''
But the rumor mill has been churning hard over the past month, since hunters found the fourth body to turn up in the area in three years. Worried residents now ban their children from the woods and groan that Manorville is developing an unsavory reputation.
Some here also speculate about a possible serial killer in their midst. But most of the crowd at Maples the other day agreed that if a local had done any of the killings, no body would ever have been found. A longtime local, they said, would know the tens of thousands of wooded and swampy acres around Manorville well enough to dispose of a body for good.
''This is still country,'' said John Hingle, a 30-year local resident interviewed at Maples, which is on Mill Road, a lonely, winding back road a five-minute drive from where two of the bodies were found. ''You make one wrong turn and you're lost. Maybe whoever did this knew the area well enough to dump a body without getting caught, but he's not from here.''
Subdivisions have begun sprouting up outside the protected core area of the Long Island pine barrens, and pockets of Manorville have begun to look like the rest of Long Island. But restrictions on construction have helped to preserve the hamlet as a place of farm fields, big old barns, rusty pickup trucks, horse pastures and long winding roads that only seem to go deeper into the woods.
Mr. Hingle and a second patron who would give only his first name, Tracy, said they believed there could be more bodies out there. ''There are still spots out here where a person only walks every year or two,'' said Tracy, who has lived here for 10 years. Mr. Hingle added: ''Those four were easy finds because they were each right off a road.''
The rumors flourish in the absence of much official information. The police have identified none of the four bodies, and three of them have yet to be officially ruled homicide victims because the exact causes of death are unknown. Lt. Jack Fitzpatrick, head of Suffolk County's homicide squad, said that the detectives continue to investigate all the cases as if they were homicides, and that they are sifting through a national database of missing persons.
The toll:
On Nov. 19, 2000, three hunters walking in the woods about a half-mile west of Halsey Manor Road, north of the Long Island Expressway, discovered plastic trash bags containing human remains. They were later determined to be those of a female who died several weeks before. She was nude, her body was chopped into pieces and her head, hands and right foot were missing. A forensic exam determined she was a brunette, white or Hispanic, no more than 5-foot-5 or 125 pounds, and between 35 and 40 years old.
Four days later, hunters found a second body just inside the tree line on the south side of the expressway between exits 68 and 69. That body was male, intact and clothed. Crushed neck bones were ''not accidental,'' Lieutenant Fitzpatrick said. The victim had been dead for about three weeks, was white or Hispanic, 20 to 30 years old, about 5-foot-6 and 130 to 150 pounds, and had black hair, he said.
On July 26, 2003, a woman walking her dog, again near Halsey Manor Road and the expressway, found a second female body -- also white or Hispanic, no taller than 5-foot-5 and under 125 pounds -- an estimated week after she died. She was between 20 and 30 years old. Unlike the first female body, this one was left in the open, on a paved access road to a sump. But like the first female, this victim was nude, decapitated and had her hands chopped off. Detectives later released photos of part of a wing tattoo near her right kidney and a purple and silver decal on one of her toenails.
On Nov. 10, mushroom pickers found the body of a male, intact but in an advanced stage of decomposition. Like the first male, this one was also dumped just south of the expressway, but 11 miles east of the first. The victim was Caucasian, 35 to 50 years old, about 5-foot-6 and had died up to four months earlier.
Throwing cold water on the serial killer theory, Lieutenant Fitzpatrick said the two female victims were similar only in that their heads and hands were removed, not enough to link them. The only connection between the two males was that both were found south of the expressway, hardly significant since they were far apart, he added.
The expressway creates ''easy access'' for anyone looking to dump a body, he said, and the Manorville stretch is the first densely wooded area along the expressway east of the city. ''All of that is more indicative of someone driving out here, dumping the body quickly and leaving,'' he said. ''It's entirely possible that none of the victims was killed in Suffolk.''
Sandy Brown, owner of a video shop in the King Kullen shopping center on Route 111, said the police have furnished too few details to put residents' minds at ease. ''I think they're just being dumped here, not killed here,'' Ms. Brown said. ''I don't believe there's a deranged serial killer living around here, but you never know.''
She said some of her customers, particularly newcomers to the rapidly developing area, are panicked. She said that many who live near the shopping center, a popular stop for travelers to or from the Hamptons, have stopped their children from walking through the woods to reach the shops there.
A resident of Halsey Manor Road, who asked that her name not be published to protect her three small children, said she was ''creeped out'' to hear that two bodies had been found not far from her house, which is surrounded by woods.
''It's horrible to think that it's happening so close by,'' she said. ''But moms in Manorville aren't dropping yet, so I'm not panicking.'' She said that, since her house is isolated, she doesn't permit her children to roam, only to play in the fenced-in backyard.
She said the neighborhood is so far off the beaten path that motorists frequently knock on her door looking for directions. ''These two girls were driving around lost for so long before they found my house that they were completely hysterical and panicked,'' she recalled. ''I think you'd have to know the area to find the places where these bodies were dumped and get out of here without getting lost.''
Rich Meyer, who manages the Michelangelo pizzeria across Route 111 from the shopping center and lives next door, wondered why the police have not linked a fifth find, of a head with a bullet wound found in January, to the Manorville cases. Lieutenant Fitzpatrick said the head was found at Twin Ponds in Center Moriches, about 10 miles southwest of the fourth Manorville body. He said it has no connection to the other bodies but declined to say why.
Terry MacPherson, who works at the Manorville Florist and nursery on Route 111, said that 30 years ago the ''big joke'' among locals was that James R. Hoffa Sr., the Teamsters president who went missing in 1975, was probably somewhere in the pine barrens.
''But now people aren't joking,'' she said. ''They want to know what's going on. It's unnerving to think that you never know what's going to be found out here.''
© 2017 The New York Times Company

That was from 2003 remember. The second female torso would eventually be identified as Jessica Taylor and parts from both torsos would be found on OP. The first male and female were dumped and found within days of each other in 2000 and the male found in 2003 four months after Jessica Taylor had been there for months. There was a third unidentified male found in 2012. Then look at the disposal method for the head found in the pond mentioned at the end of the article. The victim turned out to be a trans sex workers who lived in the same part of Brooklyn as Jessica Taylor and was killed the year before. His torso was all the way on Rockaway Beach and his limbs were somewhere off the LIE. He had a gunshot wound to to the head though and was last seen getting into a red bmw with his secret friend, a Hispanic looking male. Aside from the gunshot, that case matches LISK's signature too closesly and he was a big dude so it's likely the killer wasn't ableo strangle him.

Then the other trans victim is the Asian Male who I am certain is 16 year old Brooklyn kid Tirrel Santiago who went by the name Maya. http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...go_tirrel.html

LISK kills male and female sex workers, were the 3 unidentified male Manorville victims trans as well?

AC=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastbound_Strangler
Thanks Rocky
Interesting.
__________________
"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
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  #20  
Old 12-08-2017, 01:33 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Thanks Rocky
Interesting.
I just checked out the link to the AC murders. I don't really see why they are connected to the LISK and apparently investigators don't either.

why do you think they may be connected?
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quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

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