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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Kosminski, Aaron

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  #121  
Old 12-07-2017, 06:36 PM
Paddy Paddy is offline
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Yes Karsten that is right about the family relationship of Aaron Kozminski and Jacob Cohen. I have discovered lots of relations inter-marrying. This is why I like to dig into relations and where they might have lived.

Another Annie Lachman who married a Soloman Lewis lived in 5a Black Lion Yard and he was a shoemakers finisher. Brother and sister to Hyman and Nelly Lewis. All born Kolo.

Regarding the attack on Sister and in the Asylum; If someone is mentally ill I dont think one knows if the attack would be carried out, but could well do. I dont think one can say they would or not but the threat is definitely there. In an Asylum there would have been restraint procedures in place. The family must have been worried about the attack on sister to commit him.

The police might have well suspected Kosminski but as Henry Cox said "One would have to catch him in the act of Murder"

Pat.......
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  #122  
Old 12-07-2017, 06:42 PM
Paddy Paddy is offline
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I think Isaac Abrahams wife Bertha? is interesting because with her first few children, they had mothers maiden name of Cohen and later the mothers name changed to Levy.
Cant find Isaacs marriage either...

Pat........
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  #123  
Old 12-08-2017, 04:13 AM
John Wheat John Wheat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pontius2000 View Post
There’s no “proving” any suspect is JTR at this point. My comments is about the “weak suspect” comment.

Kosminski was:
1. Violent to some extent
2. Mentally ill
3. Lived in the immediate area
4. Suspected by several top police officials

That actually makes him a very strong suspect, certainly not a weak one. The fact that the police didn’t catch him red handed, which is pretty much what it would have taken before even fingerprint evidence, that still doesn’t mean they didn’t have a pretty good idea about who the killer was
Very strong suspect compared to who?
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  #124  
Old 12-08-2017, 04:23 AM
John Wheat John Wheat is offline
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It needs to be stated that the Kosminski being talked about on this thread might not actually be the Kosminski the contemporary police suspected.
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  #125  
Old 12-08-2017, 04:40 AM
S.Brett S.Brett is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy View Post
I think Isaac Abrahams wife Bertha? is interesting because with her first few children, they had mothers maiden name of Cohen and later the mothers name changed to Levy.
Cant find Isaacs marriage either...
Hi Pat!

Yes, it would be nice more to know about Bertha Cohen.

Soloman & Annie Lewis, nee Lachman, Shoemaker, 5a Black Lion Yard from Kolo

From my older notes (maybe I have already mentioned it earlier)

1891 Moritz & Nahra Steinkel, Barber, 4 Black Lion Yard from Klodawa (Birthplace of Aaron Kozminski)

1891 Morris & Jane Frankel, Tailor, 11 Black Lion Yard from Fllodawa (Klodawa)

1891 Betsy Frankel, 10 Tewkesbury Buildings, Whitechapel from Koulish (Kalisz)

Were the Cohen/ Kozminkis also related to the Steinkel and Frankel? The names of Lachman (n), Blechert, Frankel and Steinkel sound German.

A while ago I found (Old Bailey 1913) a Louis Frankel, Butcher at 58 Aldgate High Street/ Butchers Row (in 1888 George Bullas was the tenant) and at 1 The Shambles. But I found no connection to the Frankel from Klodawa/ Kalish.

Perhaps you may find some more about these people.

Have a nice weekend,

Karsten.
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  #126  
Old 12-08-2017, 05:11 AM
S.Brett S.Brett is offline
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Sims:

The first man was a Polish Jew... The policeman who got a glimpse of Jack in Mitre Court said, when some time afterwards he saw the Pole, that he was the height and build of the man he had seen on the night of the murder...

The second man was a Russian doctor...

They were both alive long after the horrors had ceased, and though both were in an asylum, there had been a considerable time after the cessation of the Ripper crimes during which they were at liberty and passing about among their fellow men.

I think it is clear, Sims talked about Kosminski and Ostrog. I am interested in David Cohen as the "Kosminski" suspect but David Cohen was not released. He already died on 15 October 1889.

Regarding Colney Hatch, besides David Cohen and Aaron Kozminski I can´t see another candidate for Kosminski.

Between Macnaghten´s about March 1889 and Aaron Kozminski´s admission to Colney Hatch in February 1891 was enough time for at liberty and passing about among his fellow men.

Of course, Swanson´s died shortly afterwards is another story...
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  #127  
Old 12-08-2017, 08:44 AM
Darryl Kenyon Darryl Kenyon is offline
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Of course, Swanson´s died shortly afterwards is another story...
I find it interesting that Kosminski was moved from Colney Hatch to Leavesden in 1894 and a year later Swanson believes him to be dead. In the Colney Hatch records - Date of discharge, removal or Death 19.4.94. could there have been a bureaucratic **** up and somebody told the police that Kosminski was now dead, if say there was just a cursory check up, or maybe when he was taken to Leavesden the family bribed an official to tell the police that
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  #128  
Old 12-08-2017, 11:11 AM
S.Brett S.Brett is offline
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I can well imagine that the police (Anderson) did communicate to Colney Hatch in the following months after Kosminski´s addmission.

It might be possible that Kosminski fell into a serious crisis during the first months in Colney Hatch. But there were no records between April 1891 and January 1892 if I am right.

If Kosminski had been seriously ill during this time, in critical condition, Anderson would have known about it. Who knows, perhaps the doctors thought he would die... but Kosminski was lucky and survived this condition...? At this point, would a man like Anderson stop to make further inquiries?

Macnaghten 1894: He was (and I believe still is) detained in a lunatic asylum about March 1889

One can get the impression that the Kosminski file was "closed" after he was removed to an asylum about March 1889, and that the Seaside Home ID took place later, rather "off the record".

Maybe Macnaghten thought that Kosminski was an in&out patient of the same asylum he was detained about March 1889, and still alive in 1894. Maybe Anderson thought Kosminski is now dead and Swanson believed him and told the Pall Mall Gazette 1895 his core belief:

Mr Swanson believed the crimes to be the work of a man who is now dead.

Who knows... I have to guess... nothing more than speculation
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  #129  
Old 12-08-2017, 11:46 AM
Darryl Kenyon Darryl Kenyon is offline
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Yes, it is interesting that a senior officer, Macnaghten believed Kosminski to be alive in 1894, but a year later another senior officer, Swanson believed him to be dead. I assume that Swanson would know, and possibly have read the Mac Memorandum, so what could have happened to make him think differently ?
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  #130  
Old 12-08-2017, 12:51 PM
S.Brett S.Brett is offline
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This "(and I believe still is)" was from the Aberconway version, not the official version of the memorandum. Did he change his mind after new informations (Swanson)?

I´m not sure when Sims wrote: They were both alive long after the horrors had ceased. 1907? It could imply that Sims thought, both, Kosminski and Ostrog, were already dead in 1907. I think Sims had received certain information from Macnaghten (and Anderson?) and that Macnaghten told him (1894) Kosminski is now dead. Unaware of Swanson´s died shortly afterwards in 1891.

I'm sure I don't know...

Have a nice weekend.
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