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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Kosminski, Aaron

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  #111  
Old 12-06-2017, 12:26 PM
Scott Nelson Scott Nelson is offline
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A couple of them thought they did, but were prevented from arresting the culprit because they didn't possess the extent powers that, say, the French police had.
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  #112  
Old 12-06-2017, 02:50 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
Wicker man your a joke. He threatened his sister with a knife and attempted to attack an attendant with a chair. How is that not violent?

Eating bread out of a gutter? How about eating human flesh? Which is crazier? LOL!

You really need to go to bed dude.
If you read up on this you will find Kozminski was paranoid. When paranoid, a person can pick up an knife in self defense, to tell others to keep back, likewise raising a chair is more an act of self defense, than attack.
You didn't know Kozminski ate bread out of the gutter?

Not quite the picture of a devil incarnate....
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  #113  
Old 12-06-2017, 03:34 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wickerman View Post
If you read up on this you will find Kozminski was paranoid. When paranoid, a person can pick up an knife in self defense, to tell others to keep back, likewise raising a chair is more an act of self defense, than attack.
You didn't know Kozminski ate bread out of the gutter?

Not quite the picture of a devil incarnate....
Nice tactics wick.

I’m done with you and your convoluted legendarium.
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"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

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  #114  
Old 12-06-2017, 03:52 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wickerman View Post
You didn't know Kozminski ate bread out of the gutter?

Not quite the picture of a devil incarnate....
Perhaps a picture of a second-rate ventriloquist. ("Bread and gutter, bread and gutter...")
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  #115  
Old 12-06-2017, 05:46 PM
Paddy Paddy is offline
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The family I was talking about possibly related to Jacobs mother is Haskiel / Hyman Lisiak / Lewis who married Necha Lachman b 1860 Kolo. Poland.
(sorry It wasnt Lipsich)
in 1891 they were living in 5 Princes place Whitechapel as Hyman and Nelly Lewis and children. One who was name Kasriel (Jacobs fathers name)

Pat
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  #116  
Old 12-07-2017, 04:20 AM
S.Brett S.Brett is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy View Post
The family I was talking about possibly related to Jacobs mother is Haskiel / Hyman Lisiak / Lewis who married Necha Lachman b 1860 Kolo. Poland.
(sorry It wasnt Lipsich)
in 1891 they were living in 5 Princes place Whitechapel as Hyman and Nelly Lewis and children. One who was name Kasriel (Jacobs fathers name)
Thanks Pat!

Haskiel Lisiak and Necha, nee Lachman (1891 Hyman & Nelly Lewis, 5 Princes Place/ Whitechapel)

Children:

Kasriel

This Necha Lisiak (Nelly Lewis), nee Lachman could have been related to Ryfka Kozminski, nee Lachman

Kasriel Kozminski and Ryfka, nee Lachman

Children:

Betsy Abrahams (Woolf Abrahams´ Wife – brother of Aaron Kozminski)
Jacob Kozminski, later Jacob Cohen

The parents of this Kasriel Kozminski were Mosiek Kozminski & Rozalia Blechert, and Abram Kozminski (father of Aaron Kozminski, Matilda Lubnowski, Woolf Abrahams, Helen Singer, Bertha Held and Isaac Abrahams) was probably the brother of Mosiek Kozminski.

Jacob Cohen´ grandfather was Mosiek Kozminski, and Jacobs´ great uncle was Abram Kozminski, Aaron Kozminski´s father. And, maybe, Jacob Cohen had a close relationship to Nelly Lewis (Necha Lisiak) in 5 Princes Place/ Whitechapel, and like his mother Ryfka, Nelly´s (Necha) maiden name was Lachman.

As in the case of Matilda Kozminski (Lubnowski) (who married her cousin Morris Lubnowski) Woolf Abrahams/Kozminski married his own (second) cousin Betsy nee Kozminski, sister of Jacob Cohen (Kozminski).

Is there any information about Hyman Lewis´ occupation in 1891? Princes Place off Old Montague Street, between Bucks Row and Hanbury Street?

Did I understand all of this correctly?

Karsten.
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  #117  
Old 12-07-2017, 05:31 AM
Pontius2000 Pontius2000 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wickerman View Post
If you have the background details of these incidents. Evidence to show Kozminski was violent, and not simply protecting himself (due to his paranoia?), then please share what you know.




Mental illness takes many forms, like eating bread out of the gutter.
Is that a typical trait for a serial killer, in your view?
Whether he was violent for no reason, or violent due to his illness is completely irrelevant to the question of whether he was violent. The “background” very much lacks details but points out that he was violent twice. The police experts who had the opportunity to observe him and probably question him stated that he was violent. So unless you have some kind of background to prove that he was NOT violent, then he was violent
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  #118  
Old 12-07-2017, 06:15 AM
Pontius2000 Pontius2000 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Wheat View Post
Mentally ill people can have violent outbursts but you need much more to prove he was Jack. I don't claim to no more about him than the contemporary police all I pointed out is that the contemporary police didn't come close to catching Jack.
There’s no “proving” any suspect is JTR at this point. My comments is about the “weak suspect” comment.

Kosminski was:
1. Violent to some extent
2. Mentally ill
3. Lived in the immediate area
4. Suspected by several top police officials

That actually makes him a very strong suspect, certainly not a weak one. The fact that the police didn’t catch him red handed, which is pretty much what it would have taken before even fingerprint evidence, that still doesn’t mean they didn’t have a pretty good idea about who the killer was
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  #119  
Old 12-07-2017, 07:52 AM
S.Brett S.Brett is offline
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Hi Pontius!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pontius2000 View Post
Whether he was violent for no reason, or violent due to his illness is completely irrelevant to the question of whether he was violent. The “background” very much lacks details but points out that he was violent twice. The police experts who had the opportunity to observe him and probably question him stated that he was violent. So unless you have some kind of background to prove that he was NOT violent, then he was violent
Colney Hatch: 1892 – Jan 9 – Incoherent, at times excited and violent – a few days ago he took up a chair and attempted to strike the charge attendant, apathetic as a rule, and refuses to occupy himself in any way : habits cleanly, health fan.

One could think that the chair-incident was an example for several violent incidents which took place before 9. January 1892. Of course, the notes show: Not dangerous to others and on the other hand he took up a knife & threatened the life of his sister. Maybe he was not violent and not dangerous to others when he was admitted to an infirmary or asylum. I can well imagine that a man like Aaron Kozminski did show signs of violence only after a while in Colney Hatch. Who knows, maybe he was able to hide his "homicidal tendencies" when he was confronted with police and doctors.

Swanson´s "the suspect with his hands tied behind his back" does not necessarily mean Kosminski was violent in that moment. Maybe his hands tied behind his back were safer than his hands in his trouser pockets- Keyword masturbation.

Macnaghten about "Kosminski": He had a great hatred of women, specially of the prostitute class, & had strong homicidal tendencies/ He had a great hatred of women, with strong homicidal tendencies (Aberconway Version)

Homicidal tendencies are also a form of violence, violence fantasies? If Aaron Kozminski is identical with "Kosminski" it is difficult to say whether his "attack" on his sister (or sister-in-law) was part of his strong homicidal tendencies or just a paranoid consternation.

If Aaron Kozminski was Jack the Ripper what do we expect from him in an asylum? Jack the Ripper killed prostitutes. As an inmate of an asylum, which signs of violence could such a man show? A man like the Ripper does not take a chair to strike another man? I think it isn´t right to rule out Aaron Kozminski as a Ripper suspect because he didn´t show signs of massive violence in Colney Hatch or Leavesden.

And don´t forget it seems that Aaron Kozminski was still able to speak in December 1889 and probably he was better functioning in 1888 than in the years 1889/ 1890. According to Jacob Cohen, Aaron Kozminski did work, approximately until 1887/88. From February 1891, at the latest, Aaron Kozminski lived in his own world. And this world had nothing to do with his life when he was 16, 18 or 20 years old. Metaphorically that means: If he was Jack the Ripper at the age of 22/23 he could not be the Ripper when he was 30 years old.

Karsten.
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  #120  
Old 12-07-2017, 03:26 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is online now
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As with most suspects (I'm tempted to say 'all'), it becomes necessary to stretch the truth to make them into Jack the Ripper, Kozminski is no different.
We need to look elsewhere.
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