Possible reason for Hutch coming forward

[Abby Normal]

You were addressing Abby's post, Michael, not mine. I don't really buy the 'stalker' accusation. We only have Hutch's own words for what he was doing, and the police didn't appear to get the impression that he had been indulging in stalking behaviour and was now choosing to volunteer that information.

Love,

Caz
X

The police didn’t know the significance of stalking behavior back then.
And if you don’t think following a woman around, watching what she was doing with other people, following her to her house, and waiting and watching her house for the better part of an hour in the middle of the night than I can’t help you.

[Abby Normal]

So an alibi for Hutch.

And others thought it was after a cry of murder heard shortly before 4am, or even several hours later.

So an alibi again for Hutch, presuming nobody could prove he didn't leave at 3am as he claimed.

Did anyone put the time of death while Hutch was meant to be hanging round the court?

One of the points frequently brought up in the A6 murder thread is that a suspect doesn't have to prove their whereabouts or come up with a credible alibi; it's up to the prosecution, not just to demolish an alibi, but to put the suspect beyond reasonable doubt at the scene of crime when it was committed.

If there is no conclusive time of death, this makes it virtually impossible to put Hutch in 13 Miller's Court when Kelly was being slaughtered.

Love,

Caz
X

What a coincidence that hutch ends his little vigil shortly before the screams of murder are heard and then walks about for the rest of the night.

That’s some alibi.

[c.d.]

Hi caz
He had no alibi, was never, as we can tell a suspect, and never cleared.

Now if you and others want to say his witness interview somehow included him being a defacto suspect and questioning and clearing then so be it, but it’s not really how it played out. The extent of suspicion never got farther than perhaps the police came to believe his story as a witness was BS, like previous BS witnesses, as reflected in the press stories as being discounted, and didn’t want to waste any more time with him.

Hello Abby,

Let's assume for the sake of argument that the police determined his story was BS (in other words he LIED to them) AND he claimed to know the deceased AND was with her right before she died.

You're lumping Hutchinson in with other witnesses be they BS witnesses or not and missing the most important point --Hutchinson was not an ordinary witness. Hutchinson claimed to know the deceased and was with her right before her death. Now throw in a lie. You say you don't think the police were idiots but wouldn't have alarm bells gone off like crazy if this were the case. If you think his actions were suspicious why would the police not feel the same way? And if they had these suspicions would they not have acted on them?

c.d.

[c.d.]

Hi Abby,

He had a potential alibi, if he left the court when he said he did, and Kelly could have been killed later.

But there is also the possibility that the police made enquiries and discovered Hutch was in Romford the whole time, or even safely tucked up in bed at the Victoria Home, and was perhaps recalling an encounter from a day or two earlier, if not inventing the whole thing. Either way he'd have been officially cleared - along with his real or fictional suspect.

Love,

Caz
X

Hello Caz,

I have always wondered if something like this might not have been the case. Hutchinson tells them that he was hoping to get some reward money or simply wanted the thrill of insinuating himself into the case. He admits that he was in an all night card game with ten other men. The police check his story and are able to verify it. So much for Hutch.

c.d.

[Abby Normal]

Hello Abby,

Let's assume for the sake of argument that the police determined his story was BS (in other words he LIED to them) AND he claimed to know the deceased AND was with her right before she died.

You're lumping Hutchinson in with other witnesses be they BS witnesses or not and missing the most important point --Hutchinson was not an ordinary witness. Hutchinson claimed to know the deceased and was with her right before her death. Now throw in a lie. You say you don't think the police were idiots but wouldn't have alarm bells gone off like crazy if this were the case. If you think his actions were suspicious why would the police not feel the same way? And if they had these suspicions would they not have acted on them?

c.d.

because they believed him? then nothing came of it. what are they supposed to do? he had no alibi-they couldn't check it out. waste of time.

[Abby Normal]

Hello Caz,

I have always wondered if something like this might not have been the case. Hutchinson tells them that he was hoping to get some reward money or simply wanted the thrill of insinuating himself into the case. He admits that he was in an all night card game with ten other men. The police check his story and are able to verify it. So much for Hutch.

c.d.

if that were the case and they have a confession he lied, wasn't here, verified by other witnesses... then that probably would have been enough to charge him with lying.

[Wickerman]

The police didn’t know the significance of stalking behavior back then.

Hi Abby.

Where did you get that idea from?

Stalking was an essential part of mugging (or garrotting), whether the mugged victim died of his injuries or not is immaterial. And mugging was a regular street crime since before the police were formed.
Stalking, is just sizing up a victim and waiting for the opportunity to pounce.

[Wickerman]

What a coincidence that hutch ends his little vigil shortly before the screams of murder are heard and then walks about for the rest of the night.

That’s some alibi.

But you're assuming the police didn't find an alibi. Another homeless night walker, coffee stall holder, anyone on the street who Hutchinson met.
It's like all the other accusations against Hutchinson, they're all based on supposition.
He was believed by the police, as far out as Dec 6th for sure. After that the subject never came up again.

[Wickerman]

Hutchinson claimed to know the deceased and was with her right before her death. Now throw in a lie. You say you don't think the police were idiots but wouldn't have alarm bells gone off like crazy if this were the case. If you think his actions were suspicious why would the police not feel the same way? And if they had these suspicions would they not have acted on them?

c.d.

If the police determined Hutch to have lied about where he was after leaving the court, at the very least he would have been held/detained, for questioning. The press did report on anyone detained by police at the various stations. So that would have been in the press, given his abrupt rise then fall as an extraordinary witness, turned suspect.
But, it never happened.

[Abby Normal]

But you're assuming the police didn't find an alibi. Another homeless night walker, coffee stall holder, anyone on the street who Hutchinson met.
It's like all the other accusations against Hutchinson, they're all based on supposition.
He was believed by the police, as far out as Dec 6th for sure. After that the subject never came up again.

I’m not assuming anything. They didn’t find an alibi, because he didn’t have one.
And the only thing based on supposition, as you say, is that they found one.

[Abby Normal]

If the police determined Hutch to have lied about where he was after leaving the court, at the very least he would have been held/detained, for questioning. The press did report on anyone detained by police at the various stations. So that would have been in the press, given his abrupt rise then fall as an extraordinary witness, turned suspect.
But, it never happened.

Because apparently they couldn’t prove he lied because his excuse was he walked around all night. How you going to disprove that?

[Wickerman]

Because apparently they couldn’t prove he lied because his excuse was he walked around all night. How you going to disprove that?

But that is modern guesswork. We have no written record of any investigation into Hutchinson's movements.
So the chance they may have been able to corroborate his story is purely 50/50, maybe yes, maybe no.
The point is, they still believed his story in the first week of December.

[Abby Normal]

But that is modern guesswork. We have no written record of any investigation into Hutchinson's movements.
So the chance they may have been able to corroborate his story is purely 50/50, maybe yes, maybe no.
The point is, they still believed his story in the first week of December.

How many non sequesters can you string together in one post, that’s what I’d like to know.

[caz]

The police didn’t know the significance of stalking behavior back then.

LOL! So Hutch, knowing the police wouldn't recognise the phenomenon, came forward and felt able to describe it, as it applied to his own behaviour?

Have you had an early Christmas tipple?

And if you don’t think following a woman around, watching what she was doing with other people, following her to her house, and waiting and watching her house for the better part of an hour in the middle of the night than I can’t help you.

But I thought the argument was that he did no such thing! LOL again! So was he stalking Kelly and watching who she picked up with that night? Or was he in the court on a murder mission and saw no other man in her company? Or was he making it all up and therefore not stalking anyone?

The police either saw nothing suspicious, or even that unusual about such behaviour or they concluded he had made it all up just for jolly. Had they thought for one second that Hutch's behaviour was a bit "weird", they'd have been all over it like a rash.

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

What a coincidence that hutch ends his little vigil shortly before the screams of murder are heard and then walks about for the rest of the night.

That’s some alibi.

Well if he was making it all up he presumably learned about the screams of murder and when they were heard, and fashioned his story and departure time to fit.

If he ended his vigil, not by leaving the court, but by entering the room and causing those screams, he was a very silly sausage to come forward, to put it mildly. Why take a chance on the police being such total dickheads? Why take a chance on no nosey insomniac spotting him lurking, then entering the room, then hearing Kelly scream?

Love,

Caz
X