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  #71  
Old 11-20-2017, 12:20 AM
etenguy etenguy is offline
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Only another 35-plus stabs, most of them to the upper body, and we might have a case for comparison with Tabram. As it is, the resemblance is tenuous at best.
If the similarities really were only tenuous at best, Martha Tabram's murder would not have been the more difficult of the Whitechapel murders to discount from the Ripper canon. There are a number of potential explanations for the move on from stabbing to cutting. Clearly you do not find these compelling. On their own, they may not be, but when added with all the other similarities to the canon ripper murders (I won't list all of them again), a strong link exists.

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Many, if not most, cuts require the blade to puncture the skin, but that doesn't make them stabs. Stabs just puncture the skin and come perpendicularly back out, which is what happened to Tabram, unequivocally, 39 times over.
Indeed, and only one cut in the groin area in the case of Martha Tabram.
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  #72  
Old 11-20-2017, 06:17 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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If the similarities really were only tenuous at best, Martha Tabram's murder would not have been the more difficult of the Whitechapel murders to discount from the Ripper canon. There are a number of potential explanations for the move on from stabbing to cutting. Clearly you do not find these compelling. On their own, they may not be, but when added with all the other similarities to the canon ripper murders (I won't list all of them again), a strong link exists.



Indeed, and only one cut in the groin area in the case of Martha Tabram.
Hi Eten
I think what also gets lost in the mix is that the number of ripper victims varied amongst the police. and some thought tabram was a ripper victim. I think the MM gets a little to entrenched in peoples minds. and from a dude who wasn't even in his position at the time, and lists a "suspect" who was in jail in france at the time. IMHO these after the fact opinions by the senior police need to be taken with a pinch of salt sometimes.
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  #73  
Old 11-20-2017, 06:22 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Don't really think the raised skirts can be considered a definite signature element. Surely any woman killed under these circumstances is going to be in a state of dishevelment.
Hi again Harry.

why? why would someone stabbed to death or slashed to death be found with their skirt raised that high? "dishevelment" ?

unless they were killed while standing on their heads of course ; )
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"Is all that we see or seem
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"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

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  #74  
Old 11-20-2017, 06:42 AM
Jon Guy Jon Guy is offline
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Abby

Would you still consider Tabram a Ripper victim if she had been killed after Annie Chapman ?

Just wondering
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  #75  
Old 11-20-2017, 07:03 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Abby

Would you still consider Tabram a Ripper victim if she had been killed after Annie Chapman ?

Just wondering
hi Jon
that's a great question. probably not as much as his mature MO/sig had been established by then. but if she still had the raised skirt and all else was the same I would probably still be above 505/50 that she was.
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"Is all that we see or seem
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-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
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  #76  
Old 11-20-2017, 12:35 PM
Harry D Harry D is offline
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Hi again Harry.

why? why would someone stabbed to death or slashed to death be found with their skirt raised that high? "dishevelment" ?

unless they were killed while standing on their heads of course ; )
Is there any reason why a prostitute who was violently attacked wouldn't have her skirt raised, Abby?
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  #77  
Old 11-20-2017, 12:36 PM
etenguy etenguy is offline
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Abby

Would you still consider Tabram a Ripper victim if she had been killed after Annie Chapman ?

Just wondering
That is a good question. For me, it would depend on what happened next. If Catherine Eddowes murder didn't change in terms of how it was carried out, then Tabram's murder would interupt the progression of how the murderer developed and therefore it would cast serious doubt on Tabram being part of the same muderer's canon. Just as if Polly Nichol's murder took place between Eddowes and Kelly's murders - we would have serious doubts it was the same killer.
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  #78  
Old 11-20-2017, 12:53 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Is there any reason why a prostitute who was violently attacked wouldn't have her skirt raised, Abby?
well they weren't raped and as far as they could tell no sex took place. there wasn't even overt evidence that a struggle took place.they were post mortem mutilated while lying down and the skirt was raised to gain unencumbered access to the abdomen and private parts.

and its pretty much well known that when engaging in the sex act it was done standing up. so no reason to leave a victim with the skirt raised up to expose the abdomen unless it was because the killer wanted to deliberately do it.
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"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
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  #79  
Old 11-21-2017, 04:57 AM
Jon Guy Jon Guy is offline
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hi Jon
that's a great question. probably not as much as his mature MO/sig had been established by then. but if she still had the raised skirt and all else was the same I would probably still be above 505/50 that she was.
Thanks Abby,

Personally, I`d say think the whole argument as to whether she was or not lies in the fact that Tabram was killed first.
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  #80  
Old 11-21-2017, 04:59 AM
Jon Guy Jon Guy is offline
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That is a good question. For me, it would depend on what happened next. If Catherine Eddowes murder didn't change in terms of how it was carried out, then Tabram's murder would interupt the progression of how the murderer developed and therefore it would cast serious doubt on Tabram being part of the same muderer's canon. Just as if Polly Nichol's murder took place between Eddowes and Kelly's murders - we would have serious doubts it was the same killer.
Agreed, Etenguy !!

But I wouldn`t have any doubts about Polly`s murderer if she had been killed between Eddowes and Kelly.

Last edited by Jon Guy : 11-21-2017 at 05:11 AM.
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