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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Motive, Method and Madness

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  #1061  
Old 10-23-2017, 05:19 PM
RockySullivan RockySullivan is offline
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Hey Rocky,

Well, a lot of it is based on witness information some people don't give much credit to. Packer's story of the killer living in close vicinity (Batty Street area) and the supposed attack on him for stating he thought he knew where the killer lived. Then of course the statements of Israel Schwartz. Particularly the Lipski reference, for two reasons. Rose and Philip Lipski were the actual landlords of the house (16, Batty Street) where Miriam Angel was murdered in 1887. Stride performed work for the Jews and I'm wondering if she may have worked for the Lipski's in nearby Batty Street. Also in regard to Lipski and the Pinchin torso. Somebody had chalked the word "Lipski" opposite the wall where the torso was found. So there may be a Lipski reference in both murders and I don't think it was referring to a derogative name calling or even the hanged murderer. I think whomever yelled Lipski, was calling out to Philip Lipski or warning him.

As a side note: Israel Schwartz was said to have a theatrical appearance, or something to that effect. Philip Lipski was known to frequent the Hebrew Dramatic Club on Princelet Street which employed Yddish actors.
Thanks I have always been intrigued by the two guys from lipski case Something & Rosensomething
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  #1062  
Old 10-23-2017, 11:13 PM
RockySullivan RockySullivan is offline
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Harry Schmuss and Henry Rosenbloom

Last edited by RockySullivan : 10-23-2017 at 11:15 PM.
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  #1063  
Old 10-23-2017, 11:17 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Thanks I have always been intrigued by the two guys from lipski case Something & Rosensomething
Rosenbloom and Schmuss.
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  #1064  
Old 10-23-2017, 11:31 PM
RockySullivan RockySullivan is offline
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This was from Lipski's confession: I solemnly declare that Rosenbloom and Schmuss know nothing whatever of the crime of which I have been guilty, and I alone. I implore them to pardon me for having in my despair tried to cast the blame upon them

jerry interesting suggestion that the killer may have been shouting Lipski to Liz Stride.

Last edited by RockySullivan : 10-23-2017 at 11:37 PM.
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  #1065  
Old 10-23-2017, 11:32 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Interesting theory, is there anything on that block that makes you curious? She couldn't have been dragged too far
Agreed.
I don't see the torso killers working in this manner. In the days before fast private transport, forcibly dragging a woman off the street and transporting her on foot to her place of death would be a very impractical, and easily detectable, method of acquiring a victim. Difficult to imagine anyone getting away with that tactic once, let alone four times.
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  #1066  
Old 10-24-2017, 12:34 AM
RockySullivan RockySullivan is offline
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One thing that seems certain to me is that the Ripper was a street rat. He might have been spent a lot of time on street during the day. Like John Arnold, George Hutchinson, etc. Where did Lipski and his two employees sell umbrellas?
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  #1067  
Old 10-24-2017, 01:24 AM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
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Originally Posted by RockySullivan View Post
One thing that seems certain to me is that the Ripper was a street rat. He might have been spent a lot of time on street during the day. Like John Arnold, George Hutchinson, etc. Where did Lipski and his two employees sell umbrellas?
Wherever they sold them they had some interesting customers !

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  #1068  
Old 10-24-2017, 03:09 AM
FrankO FrankO is offline
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I'm not sure if the low risk or high risk thing is even viable. Both took incredibly high risks.
Still, I think the Ripper clearly took higher risks than the one responsible for the torsos, but perhaps I should have worded it differently, Abby. However, I’m sure it’s an important difference.

The one responsible for the torsos was not just much more in control of himself than the Ripper in that he only killed once every couple of years (on average), he was also willing to take his time with each victim, to invest time in his murders. He was patient & elaborate, if you will, and thought out well how he would go about things. The Ripper murders have nothing of that in them.

This man could have killed and mutilated out in the streets like the Ripper and he could have done so every couple of weeks, but he chose not to. That he chose a very different approach should mean something and to me, at least, it does.
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but regardless, serial killers MO changes, sometimes drastically, its well known.
But not from “patient & well thought out” to “a burst of quick fixes” and back to “patient & well thought out” again. That’s not well known at all, as far as I know.
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need to really focus on the sig, which in both cases is mainly post mortem mutilation and removal of body parts.
If you can give me an example of one serial killer with approaches as different as “torso man” and the Ripper and with one interplaced in the other, I would probably agree with you on this, Abby.

All the best,
Frank
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  #1069  
Old 10-24-2017, 03:15 AM
Harry D Harry D is offline
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Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
You have to ask yourself this question, if there ever had been a serial killer, and he had lured these women to a private place where he committed murder, and then needed to dispose of the body by dismemberment, something that could have been done easily by removing arms legs,head, and the trunk. Why the need to cut open the abdomen? This make the disposable more complicated and
very messy.
Because that was part of the killer's paraphilia. For the Ripper & Torso killer(s) these mutilations fulfilled some fetishistic purpose. The Torso Killer slayed his victims in private, mutilated them and then disposed of the body parts accordingly, whereas the Ripper killed on the spot and left his victims splayed out on display. However, it appears that some of the torso parts were also left provocatively instead of discreetly dumped.
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  #1070  
Old 10-24-2017, 03:34 AM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
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Because that was part of the killer's paraphilia. For the Ripper & Torso killer(s) these mutilations fulfilled some fetishistic purpose. The Torso Killer slayed his victims in private, mutilated them and then disposed of the body parts accordingly, whereas the Ripper killed on the spot and left his victims splayed out on display. However, it appears that some of the torso parts were also left provocatively instead of discreetly dumped.
With all the ramblings about a serial killer, you have to accept that firstly, if you dont have 3 or more murders, which can be conclusively be linked by identifiable and common traits then you dont have a serial killer.

Secondly and most importantly before you can say you have a serial killer or a murderer, you have to show that deaths were as a result of murder. In most of these cases you cannot do that, and it beggars belief that despite being told this, here you all are still referring to them in the same old way.

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