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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Motive, Method and Madness

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  #1051  
Old 10-23-2017, 12:20 PM
RockySullivan RockySullivan is offline
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Originally Posted by jerryd View Post
Here's another thought to ponder. Could Liz Stride have been an intended victim to abduct and take away to murder and dismember her? It almost seems as though someone was trying to drag her out of there against her will. The area she was murdered would fit with the Pinchin torso. They were very close to each other.
Interesting theory, is there anything on that block that makes you curious? She couldn't have been dragged too far
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  #1052  
Old 10-23-2017, 02:05 PM
Observer Observer is offline
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I used to think it was very odd Mellor found the thigh in the garden. Even though I still find it suspicious, the journalists were doing everything they could to capitalize on these stories of Ripper and torso. During the Jackson investigation, people, not only police, were scouring the shores near Battersea to find her other body parts. Mellor was supposedly walking along the embankment in that area and may have been specifically looking for parcels when he came across the thigh.

That's my take anyway at this point. Remember too, two journalists threw themselves into the investigation of the police vault and brought their own dog in to find the buried leg of the Whitehall torso. Wonder why they were so adamant about it, because the police say they searched the area after finding the torso and came up empty. Maybe they knew something?
The Star made a lot of money from the Whitechapel murders, in fact I believe it has been said that the Whitechapel murders made The Star. I can see a desire for re-igniting the Whitechapel terror, but upon reflection I doubt whether the journalist in question would stoop to planting body parts around London in order to whip up interest with regard to creating a fresh Jack The Ripper scare.
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  #1053  
Old 10-23-2017, 02:13 PM
Observer Observer is offline
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I think the name "John Cleary" is why he was alerted. Then he proceeded to give his description of the man he knew (The Globe man) which turned out to obviously be the wrong guy.

There was, however, another John Cleary that played into this, but his name wasn't John Cleary in fact. His alias was John Leary and he did recently live at 21 Whitehorse Yard. The same address John Arnold gave to the Herald. After investigation by Swanson and another Detective named Partridge, John Leary was found to be a man named Dennis Lynch. John Arnold also lived at Whitehorse Yard at one time (different house number) and in my opinion knew Dennis Lynch.
I see Jerry, Mellor was alerted by the name only.
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  #1054  
Old 10-23-2017, 02:22 PM
Observer Observer is offline
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Originally Posted by jerryd View Post
Here's another thought to ponder. Could Liz Stride have been an intended victim to abduct and take away to murder and dismember her? It almost seems as though someone was trying to drag her out of there against her will. The area she was murdered would fit with the Pinchin torso. They were very close to each other.
They are very close to one another. The fact remains though is Schwartz to be believed?
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  #1055  
Old 10-23-2017, 02:29 PM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
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Hi Frank

I'm not sure if the low risk or high risk thing is even viable. Both took incredibly high risks.

but regardless, serial killers MO changes, sometimes drastically, its well known.

need to really focus on the sig, which in both cases is mainly post mortem mutilation and removal of body parts.

also, no evidence of torture or sadism in either series.
You have to ask yourself this question, if there ever had been a serial killer, and he had lured these women to a private place where he committed murder, and then needed to dispose of the body by dismemberment, something that could have been done easily by removing arms legs,head, and the trunk. Why the need to cut open the abdomen? This make the disposable more complicated and
very messy.

But of course if the abdomens had already been opened by reason of some failed back street medical procedure, then that would make more sense, and explain why the abdomens were opened up.

But of course which ever way this is looked at you are still left floundering because specific causes of death cannot be confirmed

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Last edited by Trevor Marriott : 10-23-2017 at 02:34 PM.
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  #1056  
Old 10-23-2017, 02:35 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
You have to ask yourself this question, if their had been a killer, and he had lured these women to a private place where he committed murder, and then needed to dispose of the body by dismemberment, something that could have been done easily by removing arms legs,head, and the trunk. Why the need to cut open the abdomen? This make the disposable more complicated and
very messy.

But of course if the abdomens had already been opened by reason of some failed back street medical procedure, then that would make more sense, and explain why the abdomens were opened up.

But of course you are still left floundering because specific causes of death cannot be confirmed

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
“Some failed back street medical procedure”. LOL!
Like what ...a uterusectomy?
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quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

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  #1057  
Old 10-23-2017, 02:57 PM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
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Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
“Some failed back street medical procedure”. LOL!
Like what ...a uterusectomy?
A typical response from an N.N.N.

What is an N.N.N.

No Nothing Numpty !

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
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  #1058  
Old 10-23-2017, 03:12 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
A typical response from an N.N.N.

What is an N.N.N.

No Nothing Numpty !

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
Awww.. you called me a Numpty.

That made my day Trevor. Thanks!
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"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

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"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

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  #1059  
Old 10-23-2017, 03:40 PM
jerryd jerryd is offline
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Originally Posted by RockySullivan View Post
Interesting theory, is there anything on that block that makes you curious? She couldn't have been dragged too far
Hey Rocky,

Well, a lot of it is based on witness information some people don't give much credit to. Packer's story of the killer living in close vicinity (Batty Street area) and the supposed attack on him for stating he thought he knew where the killer lived. Then of course the statements of Israel Schwartz. Particularly the Lipski reference, for two reasons. Rose and Philip Lipski were the actual landlords of the house (16, Batty Street) where Miriam Angel was murdered in 1887. Stride performed work for the Jews and I'm wondering if she may have worked for the Lipski's in nearby Batty Street. Also in regard to Lipski and the Pinchin torso. Somebody had chalked the word "Lipski" opposite the wall where the torso was found. So there may be a Lipski reference in both murders and I don't think it was referring to a derogative name calling or even the hanged murderer. I think whomever yelled Lipski, was calling out to Philip Lipski or warning him.

As a side note: Israel Schwartz was said to have a theatrical appearance, or something to that effect. Philip Lipski was known to frequent the Hebrew Dramatic Club on Princelet Street which employed Yddish actors.

Last edited by jerryd : 10-23-2017 at 03:47 PM.
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  #1060  
Old 10-23-2017, 03:50 PM
jerryd jerryd is offline
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I see Jerry, Mellor was alerted by the name only.
Yes, that's what I think.
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