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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Motive, Method and Madness

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  #971  
Old 10-21-2017, 11:33 PM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
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but that doesn't mean the torsos weren't serial murders
You must realise, that if you cant prove a series of murders,(three or more) then you cant have a serial killer, its as simple as that.

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  #972  
Old 10-21-2017, 11:37 PM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
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P.S. Don't worry about M.O. and all that bosh.
The MO is very important in determining whether or not all the murders were the work of the same hand. In the torso cases you cannot even conclusivley state the causes of death.

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  #973  
Old 10-22-2017, 12:46 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Originally Posted by RockySullivan View Post
The Whitehall torso
[was not dumped in the Thames]
But it was deposited in southwest London, where the majority of of the body parts were dumped in the river. Pinchin St was a major departure, and quite probably the work of another person or persons.
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  #974  
Old 10-22-2017, 01:27 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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But it was deposited in southwest London, where the majority of of the body parts were dumped in the river.
And it's worth reflecting that the "Whitehall Mystery" torso was found almost literally a stone's throw away from the Thames itself, as the building under construction lay just off the Victoria Embankment:

Name:  Scotland Yard.jpg
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The "Western Torso Killer", if I can call him/them that, seems to have had quite an attachment to the river.
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  #975  
Old 10-22-2017, 03:19 AM
Harry D Harry D is offline
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Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
Did JTR dismember victims ? No
Did JTR attempt to hide their identities-No
Did JTR leave the bodies where they were killed- YES

If JTR killed the Torsos then why change his MO ?
This has already been answered, Trevor.

The Torso victims were most likely killed, mutilated & dismembered in a private premises. If the killer was denied access to this location, he might take to the streets to satiate his bloodlust. The Ripper victims were all killed on the spot, there was no need for dismemberment. The only other victim killed indoors (Mary Kelly) was extensively butchered, but again not dismembered because the killer had no need to dispose of the body parts as the murder occurred in the victim's home.
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  #976  
Old 10-22-2017, 04:22 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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This has already been answered, Trevor.

The Torso victims were most likely killed, mutilated & dismembered in a private premises. If the killer was denied access to this location, he might take to the streets to satiate his bloodlust.
A blood-lust which, in the case of the Ripper, saw him dispatch four or five women in the space of three months. As for the torsos, we see what appears to be a maximum of four victims claimed over the space of two years. Why that sudden burst of multiple, outdoor, East London evisceration murders in the "Autumn of Terror"? The only torso murder that took place during the Autumn of Terror was the Whitehall Mystery, and that happened right in the heart of Southwest London, but there were no torso murders for about a year either side of that.

It looks very much to me that we have at least two killers, working to a different drum-beat, with very different methods, and very different stomping-grounds.
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  #977  
Old 10-22-2017, 06:12 AM
RockySullivan RockySullivan is offline
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But it was deposited in southwest London, where the majority of of the body parts were dumped in the river. Pinchin St was a major departure, and quite probably the work of another person or persons.
Quite probably not. Remember this is the last torso, and only 3 months of after Jackson. there could have been a reason it changed and we have no idea where or why or how the earlier victims were dumped west.
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  #978  
Old 10-22-2017, 06:15 AM
RockySullivan RockySullivan is offline
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Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
And it's worth reflecting that the "Whitehall Mystery" torso was found almost literally a stone's throw away from the Thames itself, as the building under construction lay just off the Victoria Embankment:

Attachment 18339

The "Western Torso Killer", if I can call him/them that, seems to have had quite an attachment to the river.
And so the embankment would be our biggest clue to the killer's identity. we also can assume he dumped the torso from the back, not through the front where he had to climb a ladder and then pull a string to get in? is that right?
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  #979  
Old 10-22-2017, 07:17 AM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
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This has already been answered, Trevor.

The Torso victims were most likely killed, mutilated & dismembered in a private premises. If the killer was denied access to this location, he might take to the streets to satiate his bloodlust. The Ripper victims were all killed on the spot, there was no need for dismemberment. The only other victim killed indoors (Mary Kelly) was extensively butchered, but again not dismembered because the killer had no need to dispose of the body parts as the murder occurred in the victim's home.
Can you prove all the torsos were as a result of murder?- No you cant, nor can anyone else, so to suggest firstly that they were all murdered, and secondly by a serial killer is nothing but pure conjecture.

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  #980  
Old 10-22-2017, 07:22 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Quite probably not. Remember this is the last torso, and only 3 months of after Jackson. there could have been a reason it changed and we have no idea where or why or how the earlier victims were dumped west.
The most likely reason by far is that the dumper(s) of the non-Pinchin Street torsos lived out West.

The Pinchin Street torso isn't just a change of location, either - although, in this connection alone, it's worth noting that the arches were about a mile inland from the Thames - but a change in method of dismemberment, too, in that both arms were still attached.
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