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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Motive, Method and Madness

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  #821  
Old 10-18-2017, 01:56 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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The Great Butcher Craze of Late Victorian London...?
I'm not saying they all had to be professional butchers or slaughtermen, either. My grandparents weren't butchers but they kept pigs, which they'd kill and joint themselves; and they weren't the only ones of their generation who did that.
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  #822  
Old 10-18-2017, 01:59 PM
Debra A Debra A is offline
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I'm not saying they all had to be professional butchers or slaughtermen, either. My grandparents weren't butchers but they kept pigs, which they'd kill and joint themselves; and they weren't the only ones of their generation who did that.
But a professional butcher might say they'd made a right pig's ear of the disarticulation.
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  #823  
Old 10-18-2017, 02:15 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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But a professional butcher might say they'd made a right pig's ear of the disarticulation.
Indeed, Debs, a professional butcher would be well-placed to make such a call, but a doctor or policeman might not appreciate the finer points of butchery. Perhaps they should have brought some butchers/slaughtermen into the inquests as expert witnesses - seriously. Since we're ostensibly dealing with butchery in the torso cases, I think a butcher's evaluation of the nature of the wounds might have been illuminating.
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  #824  
Old 10-18-2017, 02:41 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Of course there was. But what is the probability that four different butchers or slaughterers all murdered, mutilated and dismembered women of a type who were unmissed and unclaimed, between the age of 18-40, parcelled portions of their bodies up in brown paper tied up with window or blind cord and dumped their remains in and around the Thames within a couple of years of each other? It's not like some would have us believe, that mutilated bodies were being found in the Thames on a regular basis. They weren't at all.
Exactly debs.
I think it’s a misconception among many on here that body parts were being found in the river all the time. And not only that but that murder was commonplace. Neither was the case.

You hit on another great point that I’ve mentioned numerous times RE victomology. Why weren’t most of the torsos IDed? Because more than likely they were unfortunates who no one cared about.

I think we can pretty much dismiss the notion that there was more than one torsoman!
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  #825  
Old 10-18-2017, 02:43 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Indeed, Debs, a professional butcher would be well-placed to make such a call, but a doctor or policeman might not appreciate the finer points of butchery. Perhaps they should have brought some butchers/slaughtermen into the inquests as expert witnesses - seriously. Since we're ostensibly dealing with butchery in the torso cases, I think a butcher's evaluation of the nature of the wounds might have been illuminating.
Sam You know I like Ye! I respect you more than most on here. But you need to concede at least a little bit.

Cmon you can do it! : )
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quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

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  #826  
Old 10-18-2017, 04:39 PM
harry harry is offline
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Why the difference in the disposal sites?Perhaps work entailed the killer moving around. What kind of work might be involved?Well a board of works night watchman moved around a bit.Long nights,undisturbed,building sites a specialty.
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  #827  
Old 10-18-2017, 10:24 PM
Fisherman Fisherman is online now
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I'm not saying they all had to be professional butchers or slaughtermen, either. My grandparents weren't butchers but they kept pigs, which they'd kill and joint themselves; and they weren't the only ones of their generation who did that.
I´m sure that´s correct, and I have the exact same view of it myself. The society back then was nothing at all like ours in these respects, and many people would have grown up learning how to slaughter animals.

So their society differed from ours in that respect.

However, it also differed from our society in another respect - serial killers were not a common concept.

We will therefore have a large pool of people who potentially could dismember another human being, albeit not all of them with the diligence and the straight and confident cuts employed by "our" man.
But we are very unlikely to have any of these people actually evolving into an eviscerating serial killer.
One would be a sensation.
Two would be quite unlikely.
Two simultaneous such killers, in the same town would be something else, and I find I fail to put words to it.

And when you then add that they BOTH cut abdomens open from ribs to pubes and took away the abdominal walls in the process? No. Absolutely, cathegorically and most decidedly no.

Last edited by Fisherman : 10-18-2017 at 10:52 PM.
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  #828  
Old 10-18-2017, 11:16 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Sam You know I like Ye! I respect you more than most on here. But you need to concede at least a little bit.

Cmon you can do it! : )
My point about enlisting butchers as expert witnesses was sincere and, I think, a good one. They'd have been genuinely useful in confirming whether the "butchers" responsible for the torso disarticulations showed any real butchery skills.
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  #829  
Old 10-18-2017, 11:26 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Sam You know I like Ye! I respect you more than most on here. But you need to concede at least a little bit
OK, on that point I've already said that I'd consider two killers at work: one in the East (Pinchin) and one in the West (who would be the one "echt" serial killer in the mix).
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  #830  
Old 10-18-2017, 11:32 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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However, it also differed from our society in another respect - serial killers were not a common concept.
We don't have wait for a label to be invented for a phenomenon to exist. Serial killers have been around since the dawn of mankind.
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