Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Main
   

Introduction
Victims
Suspects
Witnesses
Ripper Letters
Police Officials
Official Documents
Press Reports
Victorian London
Message Boards
Ripper Media
Authors
Dissertations
Timelines
Games & Diversions
Photo Archive
Ripper Wiki
Casebook Examiner
Ripper Podcast
About the Casebook

Most Recent Posts:
Motive, Method and Madness: Same motive = same killer - by Abby Normal 11 minutes ago.
Motive, Method and Madness: Same motive = same killer - by Sam Flynn 11 minutes ago.
Motive, Method and Madness: Same motive = same killer - by Abby Normal 23 minutes ago.
Goulston Street Graffito: The GSG - Did Jack write it? POLL - by Michael W Richards 37 minutes ago.
Motive, Method and Madness: Same motive = same killer - by Fisherman 38 minutes ago.
Motive, Method and Madness: Same motive = same killer - by Michael W Richards 43 minutes ago.

Most Popular Threads:
Motive, Method and Madness: Same motive = same killer - (67 posts)
Scene of the Crimes: Bucks Row Project - (1 posts)
Visual Media: New play about Jack the Ripper (Denver, CO) - (1 posts)
Goulston Street Graffito: The GSG - Did Jack write it? POLL - (1 posts)

Wiki Updates:
Robert Sagar
Edit: Chris
May 9, 2015, 12:32 am
Online newspaper archives
Edit: Chris
Nov 26, 2014, 10:25 am
Joseph Lawende
Edit: Chris
Mar 9, 2014, 10:12 am
Miscellaneous research resources
Edit: Chris
Feb 13, 2014, 9:28 am
Charles Cross
Edit: John Bennett
Sep 4, 2013, 8:20 pm

Most Recent Blogs:
Mike Covell: A DECADE IN THE MAKING.
February 19, 2016, 11:12 am.
Chris George: RipperCon in Baltimore, April 8-10, 2016
February 10, 2016, 2:55 pm.
Mike Covell: Hull Prison Visit
October 10, 2015, 8:04 am.
Mike Covell: NEW ADVENTURES IN RESEARCH
August 9, 2015, 3:10 am.
Mike Covell: UPDDATES FOR THE PAST 11 MONTHS
November 14, 2014, 10:02 am.
Mike Covell: Mike’s Book Releases
March 17, 2014, 3:18 am.

Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Letters and Communications > Goulston Street Graffito

View Poll Results: Did Jack write the GSG?
YES 75 38.66%
NO 119 61.34%
Voters: 194. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #2071  
Old 09-23-2017, 12:28 PM
Elamarna Elamarna is online now
Assistant Commissioner
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: South london
Posts: 3,656
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
It says the victim is 13 years of age, is on a mortuary slab and the intestines have protruted by themselves.

Pierre
Thanks Peter.

So not a crime scene photo, which was my only issue.


Steve
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #2072  
Old 09-23-2017, 01:21 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,797
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryd View Post
Then how did Inspector McWilliam see the apron piece from GS matched up at the mortuary by Dr. Brown? He wasn't at the post mortem, was he? McWilliam went directly to the mortuary from the crime scene after the body was removed.
M'William must have arrived late that morning, as the Lloyds reporter says he left the mortuary about 5:20 am, and Phillips had not arrived yet, but was expected.
The Post-mortem was only conducted at 2:30 that afternoon at which Dr Phillips took part.
__________________
Regards, Jon S.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #2073  
Old 09-23-2017, 01:53 PM
jerryd jerryd is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 818
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wickerman View Post
M'William must have arrived late that morning, as the Lloyds reporter says he left the mortuary about 5:20 am, and Phillips had not arrived yet, but was expected.
The Post-mortem was only conducted at 2:30 that afternoon at which Dr Phillips took part.
Thanks Wick,

I meant that McWilliam wasn't at the post mortem yet saw the apron pieces matched up. So the GS piece must have arrived before 2:30 and not as Trevor suggests.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #2074  
Old 09-23-2017, 01:59 PM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,770
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
Sehr vielen Dank für das, Pierre, aber ich habe es schon übersetzt
You and Steve both would wish that were true

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #2075  
Old 09-23-2017, 02:01 PM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,770
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elamarna View Post
Thanks Peter.

So not a crime scene photo, which was my only issue.


Steve
Sorry to disappoint but Pierre is not correct !

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #2076  
Old 09-23-2017, 02:05 PM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,770
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryd View Post
Then how did Inspector McWilliam see the apron piece from GS matched up at the mortuary by Dr. Brown? He wasn't at the post mortem, was he? McWilliam went directly to the mortuary from the crime scene after the body was removed.
But he could not have because when the body was stripped the GS piece had not yet been found, and when it was found it was taken to Leman St. We dont have an exact time of the day when Dr Phillips took it to the mortuar but it could not have been before 5.20am because a Star reporter was at the mortuary until that time. So we must assume it was taken to the mortuary prior to the post mortem.

Where does McWilliam state that ?

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #2077  
Old 09-23-2017, 02:13 PM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
Inspector
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,398
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wickerman View Post
M'William must have arrived late that morning, as the Lloyds reporter says he left the mortuary about 5:20 am, and Phillips had not arrived yet, but was expected.
The Post-mortem was only conducted at 2:30 that afternoon at which Dr Phillips took part.
Yes, the body was removed from Mitre Square around 3am by Collard and was in the mortuary with clothes removed by 03:45, according to the time written on Foster's mortuary sketch. McWilliam's report says he was at the detective office at that time, having only just heard of the murder, and went from there to Mitre Square, where Collard was back in charge. From there he went to Golden Lane and saw the apron pieces matched.
I can't find it, but I'm pretty sure there is a report of Long saying he took the piece of apron he found to the Commercial St station, and from there with the inspector to Leman St - where he handed it to a man he later learned was Dr Phillips - and was back on duty in Goulston St around 5am, seeing the graffito erased around 05:30ish.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #2078  
Old 09-23-2017, 02:44 PM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,770
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
Sorry to disappoint but Pierre is not correct !

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
Now I hate to say this but the translation is almost correct, and I was mistaken, Further research shows the victim in the photo is a 13 year old girl, her body was found outside. The knife shown in the photo is the knife used to cut her throat and to cut open her abdomen.

It still doesn't take away the fact that the victims intestines recoiled outwards, and upwards, and moving the body would not result in them recoiling from an open wound, if they already hadn't done so, unless they tipped the body over, or on its side, because they would have covered the body for transportation.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #2079  
Old 09-23-2017, 02:55 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is online now
Casebook Supporter
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wales
Posts: 8,637
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
Now I hate to say this but the translation is almost correct.
The only thing my translation got wonky was her age. I thought the caption said 13½, but that was because of my poor eyesight (I have astigmatism), which sneaked in a phantom "½" symbol, when there was none.
__________________
Kind regards, Sam Flynn

"Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

Last edited by Sam Flynn : 09-23-2017 at 03:00 PM.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #2080  
Old 09-23-2017, 03:02 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is online now
Casebook Supporter
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wales
Posts: 8,637
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
It still doesn't take away the fact that the victims intestines recoiled outwards, and upwards
Yes, but only by a few inches. Intestines do not "recoil outwards and upwards" to the extent that they shoot back over a person's thorax and land next to their head. They're full of $hit, not Semtex.
__________________
Kind regards, Sam Flynn

"Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 04:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.