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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Letters and Communications > Goulston Street Graffito

View Poll Results: Did Jack write the GSG?
YES 74 38.34%
NO 119 61.66%
Voters: 193. You may not vote on this poll

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  #2001  
Old 09-22-2017, 01:03 PM
Elamarna Elamarna is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
hi El
I may be wrong but I believe before Lech, Fish didn't have any other candidate he felt strongly about.
I think you are wrong there Abby, did he not prefer Hutchinson?
However I am happy to be corrected. And if wrong will happily withdraw the comment.

Steve
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  #2002  
Old 09-22-2017, 01:30 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
"And the left kidney carefeully taken out"

So we have a killer who kills Eddowes in a frenzied attack, and then in the heat of the moment composes himself to be able to remove a kidney carefully
Let's put Dr Brown's words in context:

"The gall bladder contained bile. The pancreas was cut, but not through, on the left side of the spinal column. Three and a half inches of the lower border of the spleen by half an inch was attached only to the peritoneum. The peritoneal lining was cut through on the left side and the left kidney carefully taken out and removed."

So, after perpetrating utter carnage on the surrounding tissues, he carefully takes out the kidney. Well done that man
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  #2003  
Old 09-22-2017, 02:43 PM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is online now
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Originally Posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
I believe that the intestines are physically unable to "recoil" any further than shown due to the messentery, which tethers them to the rear abdominal wall.
Dr Brown
"The intestines had been detached to a large extent from the mesentery"

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
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  #2004  
Old 09-22-2017, 02:57 PM
etenguy etenguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirectorDave View Post
No, for me.

I think the simplest explanation is that the killer tossed the apron aside and the GSG was already there.

There were many other, perhaps easier methods to leave a message, MJK's room for one.

I'm about 80% No ~ 20% Yes.
It may simply have been discarded, but if so why did he cut the apron, take away a piece and discard it there?

Goulston street is a fair distance from Mitre Square, so he'd be carrying it for a while. I assume he had a reason to take the apron portion in the first place. There are three (and perhaps more) plausible reasons
1. to clean up - but he'd never done that before
2. to carry away the organs - but why then choose a different carrying method at Goulston street?
3. to authenticate a message - possibly but requires a belief that the link between the graffito and apron would be made - as indeed it was - but the juxtaposition would need to be carefully organised.

I agree leaving the apron segment next to a wall written message is convoluted and the message may have been missed, but the alternatives also raise questions which are difficult to understand.
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  #2005  
Old 09-22-2017, 03:04 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is online now
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Originally Posted by etenguy View Post
Goulston street is a fair distance from Mitre Square, so he'd be carrying it for a while.
It's only about a 6 minute walk away, 3-4 minutes at jogging/running pace.
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  #2006  
Old 09-22-2017, 03:05 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is online now
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Originally Posted by etenguy View Post
1. to clean up - but he'd never done that before
He'd never cut out a length of colon and smeared faeces over a woman's intestines before, but he did this time.
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  #2007  
Old 09-22-2017, 03:37 PM
etenguy etenguy is offline
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Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
It's only about a 6 minute walk away, 3-4 minutes at jogging/running pace.
Still a bit of a distance if he was covered in gunk - he'd have passed side streets sooner to quickly clean up. But maybe he didn't feel safe to stop sooner.
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  #2008  
Old 09-22-2017, 03:41 PM
etenguy etenguy is offline
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Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
He'd never cut out a length of colon and smeared faeces over a woman's intestines before, but he did this time.
Point taken, but he must have got blood over himself at the earlier murders. Maybe he was less happy with faeces.
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  #2009  
Old 09-22-2017, 03:41 PM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
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Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
Dr Brown
"The intestines had been detached to a large extent from the mesentery"
Precisely. That doesn't happen by accident, or even a few random stabs. The killer had to lift the intestines and deliberately cut through perhaps 15ft of messentary to free them.
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  #2010  
Old 09-22-2017, 03:47 PM
DirectorDave DirectorDave is offline
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Originally Posted by etenguy View Post
It may simply have been discarded, but if so why did he cut the apron, take away a piece and discard it there?

Goulston street is a fair distance from Mitre Square, so he'd be carrying it for a while. I assume he had a reason to take the apron portion in the first place. There are three (and perhaps more) plausible reasons
1. to clean up - but he'd never done that before
2. to carry away the organs - but why then choose a different carrying method at Goulston street?
3. to authenticate a message - possibly but requires a belief that the link between the graffito and apron would be made - as indeed it was - but the juxtaposition would need to be carefully organised.

I agree leaving the apron segment next to a wall written message is convoluted and the message may have been missed, but the alternatives also raise questions which are difficult to understand.
Hi Etenguy.

Leaving aside the distance from Mitre Square as i don't think it's particularly relevant to your points...

I think it is logical to assume that there was some "clean up" involved after all the murders, but the apron is the only evidence that we have of them

I ask myself what was different on that night that made him cut a piece of apron, for whatever reason?

He had killed before on that night.

Perhaps the handkerchief he usually used was already bloodied or perhaps even discarded knowing the Stride killing was the closest yet he had come to getting caught in the act?

Caught with a knife is one thing, caught with a knife and the bloody rag it has been cleaned with...slightly more troublesome.

I don't think the "difficult questions" you mention are "difficult" in the slightest, just that there are many plausible explanations so we will never really know why on that night he cut a piece of apron and discarded it.
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Last edited by DirectorDave : 09-22-2017 at 03:53 PM.
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