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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Letters and Communications > Goulston Street Graffito

View Poll Results: Did Jack write the GSG?
YES 75 38.66%
NO 119 61.34%
Voters: 194. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1931  
Old 09-21-2017, 03:09 AM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elamarna View Post
Ah an attempt at sarcasm, we both know who will give up first Trevor,




Not at all. No actual evidence for that suggestion, just interpretation which is used to dismiss that one does not like





Thank you so much Trevor, so there is an omission either way is there not?

In a signed deposition he does not say if the Apron was attached or not!

Therefore such a source tells us nothing with regards to the presence of the Apron and so cannot be used to form an hypothesis either way, the information needed is not included.
Any hypothesis with regards to the apron and Brown's view on it can only be made from other sources if it is to hold any validity


Steve
But there is evidence from both sides of the argument. So that in itself creates a doubt, which then needs to be explored, and all the facts and evidence carefully considered, and evaluated and sensible conclusions then drawn. But you seem to not want to do that. All you keep banging on about is what you yourself interpret from the facts and the evidence disregarding the flaws in the evidence and facts you seek to rely on.

So where does this apron issue lead us in the grand scheme of things, if she was wearing an apron why did the killer cut or tear it. With the taking away of the organs in it firmly sunk without trace, what is left.

Wiping bloody hands or a knife, well there is a multitude of plausible explanations for not believing either of these. So that brings us back to the suggestion that she was not wearing an apron and so the killer could not have cut it or torn it, and that there are other plausible explanation as to how it got to GS.

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  #1932  
Old 09-21-2017, 03:21 AM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
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Was Chapman wearing an apron? This is from James Kent's testimony in the Daily Telegraph 13th Sept;

"Deceased's clothes were disarranged, and her apron was thrown over them."
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  #1933  
Old 09-21-2017, 03:25 AM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
But there is evidence from both sides of the argument. So that in itself creates a doubt, which then needs to be explored, and all the facts and evidence carefully considered, and evaluated and sensible conclusions then drawn. But you seem to not want to do that. All you keep banging on about is what you yourself interpret from the facts and the evidence disregarding the flaws in the evidence and facts you seek to rely on.
There is no report which says she was not wearing an apron, there are many which say she was.
Find a valid source which definitively says no apron was worn and then one can debate the subject seriously. All we have at present is an argument based on belief.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
So where does this apron issue lead us in the grand scheme of things, if she was wearing an apron why did the killer cut or tear it. With the taking away of the organs in it firmly sunk without trace, what is left.

Wiping bloody hands or a knife, well there is a multitude of plausible explanations for not believing either of these. So that brings us back to the suggestion that she was not wearing an apron and so the killer could not have cut it or torn it, and that there are other plausible explanation as to how it got to GS.
Nothing you have posted counters the point that the source you have been using to back the hypothesis that she was not wearing an apron - Brown official inquest report, does not actually contain the data/information required for the hypothesis to be tested.
The hypothesis is based on wishful thinking, and as such it cannot be proven.
Provide an hypothesis based on fact and you may find people are prepared to consider it.


Steve
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  #1934  
Old 09-21-2017, 04:36 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
Wiping bloody hands or a knife, well there is a multitude of plausible explanations for not believing either of these.
The corpse of a women lies bloodied and eviscerated in Mitre Square and a bloodstained piece of fabric, shown to be a missing portion of her apron, is found in a doorway a sort distance away, within an hour of her death. What on earth could be more plausible than that the blood got on the apron as a direct consequence of the murder?
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  #1935  
Old 09-21-2017, 06:54 AM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
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Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
The corpse of a women lies bloodied and eviscerated in Mitre Square and a bloodstained piece of fabric, shown to be a missing portion of her apron, is found in a doorway a sort distance away, within an hour of her death. What on earth could be more plausible than that the blood got on the apron as a direct consequence of the murder?
Well if you took the blinkers off you might be able to answer your own question.

And your wording is wrong, it should surely read "a blood stained piece of fabric which was matched to another piece of fabric.

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  #1936  
Old 09-21-2017, 07:14 AM
Harry D Harry D is offline
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Wasn't a bad thread until Trev hijacked it with his usual twaddle.
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  #1937  
Old 09-21-2017, 07:26 AM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
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Wasn't a bad thread until Trev hijacked it with his usual twaddle.
I think you mean hijacking it with interesting and plausible theories, your brain and hands are clearly not in sync with each other

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  #1938  
Old 09-21-2017, 07:38 AM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
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Originally Posted by Elamarna View Post
There is no report which says she was not wearing an apron, there are many which say she was.
Find a valid source which definitively says no apron was worn and then one can debate the subject seriously. All we have at present is an argument based on belief.

Nothing you have posted counters the point that the source you have been using to back the hypothesis that she was not wearing an apron - Brown official inquest report, does not actually contain the data/information required for the hypothesis to be tested.
The hypothesis is based on wishful thinking, and as such it cannot be proven.
Provide an hypothesis based on fact and you may find people are prepared to consider it.
Steve
I think you should also look what Dr Brown stated "I fitted the piece of apron, which had a new piece of material on it (which had evidently been sewn on to the piece I have), the seams of the borders of the two actually corresponding"

Notice he uses the term piece, not as you might expect just "apron"

So the two pieces had originally been sown together at some time in the past and had been now been detached along the stitching where they had been joined. How lucky would that have been for the killer to be able to take hold of an apron in haste she was wearing, in almost total darkness, and just happen to be able cut or tear along the same line where they had been sown together.

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  #1939  
Old 09-21-2017, 07:38 AM
Harry D Harry D is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
I think you mean hijacking it with interesting and plausible theories, your brain and hands are clearly not in sync with each other

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
Naaah, just the same tired, worn-out, beaten to death crap you've always peddled.
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  #1940  
Old 09-21-2017, 07:53 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
And your wording is wrong, it should surely read "a blood stained piece of fabric which was matched to another piece of fabric
It was identified as a piece of apron, and it was found to match the remainder of the apron attached by strings (to the victim's body).
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