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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Maybrick, James

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  #1461  
Old 09-21-2017, 04:22 AM
Observer Observer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider View Post
I think Caz addressed that in a previous poste. oops!
Not to my satisfaction, and a whole lot of other individuals who post here. However I was asking what your thoughts were on the matter.
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  #1462  
Old 09-21-2017, 04:27 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Originally Posted by Observer View Post
The Diary is riddled with this type of thing.
Indeed so.
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  #1463  
Old 09-21-2017, 04:37 AM
John G John G is offline
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Originally Posted by Observer View Post
Not to my satisfaction, and a whole lot of other individuals who post here. However I was asking what your thoughts were on the matter.
How on earth can anyone effectively address the issue, as the odds are so great that Maybrick originated the phrase that it would be something of a miracle of it were true.

I mean, "who knows if the moon's a balloon, coming out of a keen city in the sky and filled with pretty people?" But I don't believe that it is!
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  #1464  
Old 09-21-2017, 04:47 AM
Observer Observer is offline
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Originally Posted by John G View Post
The reason that obvious forgeries like the Maybrick diary succeed is that there's too many guilable people in the world.

I mean, for a start you'd have to be a total idiot, or at least not one of life's great thinkers, to believe that the first example of the phrase "one-off" appeared in a diary of dubious provenance and that it wasn't used again for almost half a century-at least in written form-and then only in a technical context related to the engineering industry. As I've pointed out already, the odds are tens of millions to one against and you surely don't have to be a mathematical genius to understand the implications of that simple statistic .
There was a link to JTRforums some time back in this thread, and I was surprised to see quite a few of the poster's there who were of the opinion that "one off instance", "spread mayhem" etc, had been successfully "dealt" with in favour of the Diary being genuine. One poster in particular, Mr Poster I seem to recall was a regular contributor to this forum. It's some years back now but I remember he made some very good points with regard to Hutchinson being a non- starter with regard to him being JTR. All in all a very level headed poster. In short, it's not only the gullible who have been taken in by this very obvious hoax.
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  #1465  
Old 09-21-2017, 05:19 AM
John G John G is offline
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Originally Posted by Observer View Post
There was a link to JTRforums some time back in this thread, and I was surprised to see quite a few of the poster's there who were of the opinion that "one off instance", "spread mayhem" etc, had been successfully "dealt" with in favour of the Diary being genuine. One poster in particular, Mr Poster I seem to recall was a regular contributor to this forum. It's some years back now but I remember he made some very good points with regard to Hutchinson being a non- starter with regard to him being JTR. All in all a very level headed poster. In short, it's not only the gullible who have been taken in by this very obvious hoax.
Yes, the diary seems to be such an emotive subject that even some otherwise sensible posters have elected to throw logic out of the window.

And some people seem to find it extremely difficult to just draw a line in the sand, basing their arguments on the dubious premise, "well it could be true. How do you know for definite that it isn't? That's not being objective?"

Well, on the same dubious basis I could assert that Caroline Maxwell butchered MJK, and then challenge posters to prove me wrong!
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  #1466  
Old 09-21-2017, 05:30 AM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
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I'd like to reply to the deluge but I'm on my phone and it takes me way to long to type. If the hotels Wi-Fi is sorted I'll reply tonight.
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  #1467  
Old 09-21-2017, 05:50 AM
Graham Graham is offline
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Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
As is the idea that even a moderately educated man would say that he "frequented" a pub on a given day, when what he did was "popped into" the pub. To frequent something refers to a pattern of behaviour over time (the clue is in the word), not to a single visit. Nobody ever said, "I think I'll frequent the pub this evening" ; this is yet another example of someone of limited education trying to use a grandiose word in order to give the impression of "oldspeak" and failing miserably.
Yes Sam, and as I've said before this is what alerted me the very first time I read a transcript. It doesn't (to me, at any rate) smack of someone writing 'off the cuff', so to speak, in a fluent, easy manner. I've also said before that I have old hand-written family documents from the second half of the 19th century, and the vast majority are fluent, easy reading, if a little formal in comparison with modern speech and writing patterns. In my experience you'll find High Victorian formal English in serious literarature and official works (for example). But some people see no problem with the Diary's style, and so be it.

While I'm here the phrase that always gave me pause for thought is "Tin Matchbox Empty". Any ideas, anyone?

Graham
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  #1468  
Old 09-21-2017, 05:58 AM
John G John G is offline
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It's worth noting that "Poste haste" is also spelt wrongly in the diary. The forger certainly had a problem with the very simple word "post".

Maybrick, of course, would have had no such difficulties. He was an educated man and almost certainly attended Liverpool Collegiate Institution, a fee paying school where William Gladstone, who would later become prime minister, gave a speech at the opening ceremony: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...ybrick&f=false
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  #1469  
Old 09-21-2017, 06:05 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham View Post
Yes Sam, and as I've said before this is what alerted me the very first time I read a transcript. It doesn't (to me, at any rate) smack of someone writing 'off the cuff', so to speak, in a fluent, easy manner. I've also said before that I have old hand-written family documents from the second half of the 19th century, and the vast majority are fluent, easy reading, if a little formal in comparison with modern speech and writing patterns. In my experience you'll find High Victorian formal English in serious literarature and official works (for example). But some people see no problem with the Diary's style, and so be it.

While I'm here the phrase that always gave me pause for thought is "Tin Matchbox Empty". Any ideas, anyone?

Graham
where does that phrase come from? I know its in the diary but isn't it on the list of items found on one of the victims from a police report???
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  #1470  
Old 09-21-2017, 06:47 AM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
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Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
where does that phrase come from? I know its in the diary but isn't it on the list of items found on one of the victims from a police report???
Yes Abby, it comes from Collard's list of Eddowes' possessions. I believe the diarist also alludes to the other tin boxes on the list containing sugar and tea. But it seems somewhat unlikely that a killer pressed for time would have emptied Kate's pockets, identified the contents, then put them back again.
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