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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Letters and Communications > Goulston Street Graffito

View Poll Results: Did Jack write the GSG?
YES 75 38.66%
NO 119 61.34%
Voters: 194. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1921  
Old 09-21-2017, 01:32 AM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
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Thats my take with Pc Robinson and Hutts testimony, and why we have Collard who doesn't go along with the lie when he says apparently wearing. He was an Inspector and probably thought he was not going to risk his pension by perjuring himself
The issue is you have no evidence to support this, it a hunch based on semantic interpretation of a source.

You happily admit there are no sources which back your view and it therefore is just another unsupported idea along with so many others.

On the issue of "Apparently" the good inspector does not deny an apron was worn or even say " I don't think so"

Therefore on a very strong level of probability she was wearing an apron.

Your semantic attempt to suggest the inspector is really saying no fails!

And I see you have still not addressed the issue that Brown DID NOT say Eddowes was not wearing an apron in his official signed statement.


Steve
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  #1922  
Old 09-21-2017, 01:54 AM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
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Oh dear here we go again
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elamarna View Post
The issue is you have no evidence to support this, it a hunch based on semantic interpretation of a source.

You happily admit there are no sources which back your view and it therefore is just another unsupported idea along with so many others.

But you cant avoid the fact that they were shown a piece of old white apron, which in reality could have been any old white piece of apron and they stated that they believed it was from the apron she was wearing.They were never asked how could they be so sure. What was special about the apron they saw her wearing to be able to identify the pieces they were shown.

On the issue of "Apparently" the good inspector does not deny an apron was worn or even say " I don't think so"

Therefore on a very strong level of probability she was wearing an apron.

And a very strong level of probability to show she wasnt

Your semantic attempt to suggest the inspector is really saying no fails!

And I see you have still not addressed the issue that Brown DID NOT say Eddowes was not wearing an apron in his official signed statement.

But he didnt say she was did he?

Steve
Note the matching of the two pieces was done via the seams of the borders so that means the two pieces must have come from the same side of the apron. Do you not think that is strange, if she was wearing an apron? Because that means that the mortuary piece must have been the top right or left of the apron, and if that be so would still have been attached to the body and would have been recorded as her wearing it.

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  #1923  
Old 09-21-2017, 01:55 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
Doesnt matter who would have found it how would a resident have connected it to a murder or the graffiti ?

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In the same way that Long did. Or, for that matter, in the same way that other members of the public connected other artefacts, albeit spuriously, to the murders.
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  #1924  
Old 09-21-2017, 01:57 AM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
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Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post

apparently definition

"You have read or been told something although you are not certain it is true"

"apparent -used to describe something that appears to be true based on what is known"


What can be taken from all of this. My interpretation is that the list was made up in good faith at the time, and clearly she was not wearing an apron when it was made. At the time the Gs piece had not been found.

After it had been found and the two pieces later matched there was a wrong inference made by some that in fact she was wearing an apron and the killer cut ot tore the GS piece all to make the pieces fit (no pun intended)

And that is why Collard used the term apparently.He had to use that term because he had just produced lists which showed she was not wearing one.

I suggest you read the second definition again and the ones below

" —used to describe something that appears to be true based on what is known

an apparently happy marriage

The window had apparently been forced open.

Apparently, we're supposed to wait here."


And

"As far as one knows or can see."



Such do not fit what you are suggesting.

What Collard is saying is that there is evidence to suggest she was wearing the Apron, which by definition means he has placed it in the wrong list. It can be read, if one is so minded, that this way he avoids actually saying that.


Steve
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  #1925  
Old 09-21-2017, 01:59 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Originally Posted by Elamarna View Post
Therefore on a very strong level of probability she was wearing an apron
That's the annoying thing about aprons. Women tend to wear them.
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  #1926  
Old 09-21-2017, 02:03 AM
John G John G is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
That's the annoying thing about aprons. Women tend to wear them.
Ah, but didn't Issenschmidt wear a leather apron?
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  #1927  
Old 09-21-2017, 02:07 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Originally Posted by John G View Post
Ah, but didn't Issenschmidt wear a leather apron?
OK, people tend to wear them
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  #1928  
Old 09-21-2017, 02:15 AM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
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Ah, but didn't Issenschmidt wear a leather apron?
So did Pizer but the police believed he left it at the crime scene. Another example of the failings of the police back then

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  #1929  
Old 09-21-2017, 02:18 AM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
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Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
Oh dear here we go again
Ah an attempt at sarcasm, we both know who will give up first Trevor,


Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
And a very strong level of probability to show she wasnt
Not at all. No actual evidence for that suggestion, just interpretation which is used to dismiss that one does not like


Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
But he didnt say she was did he?

Thank you so much Trevor, so there is an omission either way is there not?

In a signed deposition he does not say if the Apron was attached or not!

Therefore such a source tells us nothing with regards to the presence of the Apron and so cannot be used to form an hypothesis either way, the information needed is not included.
Any hypothesis with regards to the apron and Brown's view on it can only be made from other sources if it is to hold any validity


Steve

Last edited by Elamarna : 09-21-2017 at 02:23 AM.
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  #1930  
Old 09-21-2017, 02:22 AM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
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Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
So did Pizer but the police believed he left it at the crime scene. Another example of the failings of the police back then

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Yes the police often make mistakes even in the late 20th century

The Birmingham six and Colin Stagg to name but 2 cases.

Steve
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