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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Maybrick, James

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  #941  
Old 09-13-2017, 01:17 PM
Ally Ally is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
'Amateurish?' - no way. Mike Barrett the master forger 25 years later and it's still around. Hitler diary - 6 months.
I'll leave everyone to their comfortable certainty
To be fair, it's not so much the skill of the forger as the effort into analysis that is evidenced here. The world had a vested interest in the Hitler diaries. Nobody really gives two turds for funding a comprehensive testing of the Maybrick diary...or is willing to put it to the rigors of testing.
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  #942  
Old 09-13-2017, 01:17 PM
Mike J. G. Mike J. G. is offline
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Originally Posted by Kaz View Post
Exactly 'what' handwriting of JM's are you comparing to?

I thought it was based on his last Will ? Which was queried as genuine as likely to have been written by Michael M.
The only known forms of his supposed writing, Kaz, and IIRC, they were compared with the diary and found to be non-matching.

Do we have any proper evidence to suggest that James didn't actually write it?
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  #943  
Old 09-13-2017, 01:19 PM
Mike J. G. Mike J. G. is offline
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Originally Posted by Ally View Post
To be fair, it's not so much the skill of the forger as the effort into analysis that is evidenced here. The world had a vested interest in the Hitler diaries. Nobody really gives two turds for funding a comprehensive testing of the Maybrick diary...or is willing to put it to the rigors of testing.
Nobody beyond these forums gives much of a toss about it, as you say, and I've yet to meet one person in this city who believes Maybrick was the Ripper, lol. The Hitler diaries were obviously massive news at the time, whereas this diary business barely made it onto Granada Tonight news.
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  #944  
Old 09-13-2017, 01:20 PM
Kaz Kaz is offline
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Originally Posted by Mike J. G. View Post
The only known forms of his supposed writing, Kaz, and IIRC, they were compared with the diary and found to be non-matching.

Do we have any proper evidence to suggest that James didn't actually write it?

Honestly, its been so long since I've read the final chapter I've completely forgotten.

think the book is in the attic... up there tomorrow digging out some 80's putes (not Amstrads...hate em)
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  #945  
Old 09-13-2017, 01:23 PM
Observer Observer is offline
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Originally Posted by Graham View Post
Really? So can you please explain why samples of Maybrick's handwriting from
this famous archive haven't been reproduced in the various books about the Diary?

Are you sure you don't mean Florence's or even Michael's handwriting?

Graham
I'm not sure I appreciate your condescending tone of voice. However, there is a letter of Maybrick's reproduced in Paul Feldman's book "Jack The Ripper The Final Chapter" page 276. It was written from the SS Baltic, and signed Jas Maybrick.
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  #946  
Old 09-13-2017, 01:25 PM
Graham Graham is offline
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In defence of Herlock Sholmes, I agree with him that the Diary, albeit a fake, if it is a fake, is not an amateurish fake. I mean, not quite in the style of a schoolboy faking a letter from his Mom that he's sick and can't go to school.
As to the claimed anachronisms, I'm not so sure. For how long must a word or phrase exist verbally before it's rendered into print? I haven't a clue. Yet there are words in Shakespeare which to our eyes and ears seem 'modern', but which may have been old and in general verbal use even in Shakespeare's time.

What kinda bothers me about the Diary is that its prose just seems awkward and even clumsy. OK, you might say that it reflects how Victorians spoke and wrote, but my grand-dad, who I remember very well, was Victorian, and he spoke and wrote much the same as I do. The Diary to me seems to be written in a kind of 'stage Victorian', for want of a better expression....I mean, did real Victorians converse in a style akin to the language in, for example, Oscar Wilde's plays? I doubt it.

Graham
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  #947  
Old 09-13-2017, 01:27 PM
Graham Graham is offline
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Originally Posted by Observer View Post
I'm not sure I appreciate your condescending tone of voice. However, there is a letter of Maybrick's reproduced in Paul Feldman's book "Jack The Ripper The Final Chapter" page 276. It was written from the SS Baltic, and signed Jas Maybrick.
To which I referred in a previous post, Post 918 to be precise, if you could have been bothered to read it. And who's being 'condescending'? I was merely asking you a question, that's all. Tut.

Graham
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Last edited by Graham : 09-13-2017 at 01:36 PM.
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  #948  
Old 09-13-2017, 01:30 PM
Graham Graham is offline
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Originally Posted by Ally View Post
To be fair, it's not so much the skill of the forger as the effort into analysis that is evidenced here. The world had a vested interest in the Hitler diaries. Nobody really gives two turds for funding a comprehensive testing of the Maybrick diary...or is willing to put it to the rigors of testing.
Couldn't agree more.

Graham
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  #949  
Old 09-13-2017, 01:34 PM
Mike J. G. Mike J. G. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham View Post
In defence of Herlock Sholmes, I agree with him that the Diary, albeit a fake, if it is a fake, is not an amateurish fake. I mean, not quite in the style of a schoolboy faking a letter from his Mom that he's sick and can't go to school.
As to the claimed anachronisms, I'm not so sure. For how long must a word or phrase exist verbally before it's rendered into print? I haven't a clue. Yet there are words in Shakespeare which to our eyes and ears seem 'modern', but which may have been old and in general verbal use even in Shakespeare's time.

What kinda bothers me about the Diary is that its prose just seems awkward and even clumsy. OK, you might say that it reflects how Victorians spoke and wrote, but my grand-dad, who I remember very well, was Victorian, and he spoke and wrote much the same as I do. The Diary to me seems to be written in a kind of 'stage Victorian', for want of a better expression....I mean, did real Victorians converse in a style akin to the language in, for example, Oscar Wilde's plays? I doubt it.

Graham
I think we can argue for days on whether we think it's amateurish or not, but as far it being something beyond the capabilities of a common man/woman, I don't really see anything in there that impresses me, other than the imagination of the person who wrote it. I can admire it for its attempt at lacing fact with fiction, but other than that, it's hard to pin-point anything that I find truly worthy of applause and as being beyond the capability of an average person.

Average people do exceptional things all the time. What we consider to be exceptional tends to differ from person-to-person, though.
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  #950  
Old 09-13-2017, 01:40 PM
Mike J. G. Mike J. G. is offline
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Originally Posted by Kaz View Post
Honestly, its been so long since I've read the final chapter I've completely forgotten.

think the book is in the attic... up there tomorrow digging out some 80's putes (not Amstrads...hate em)
A huge clue about all of this would be evident in the writing itself, and we have a case where a piece of writing, supposedly May's, was compared to the diary, and found to not match.

In an ideal world, we'd have another piece of writing with which to compare, but it's not clear that we do.

So, we either are content that the two pieces do not match, or we ignore it, but if we ignore it, we cannot possibly conclude that it's certified fact that May wrote it or that he was the Ripper.

So I kind of have to wonder about how anyone can safely conclude it to be the "real deal" like we're hearing about re: this new book.

It can't possibly be conclusive if we can't even compare the handwriting conclusively.
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